Other crap -- Australian Minor Political Groups

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Date Posted: 17:39:15 10/18/00 Wed
Author: Bob
Subject: Other crap

To Freen: thanks (I think) for the support. I don't know if I could be correctly classified as a right-winger as most left wingers understand the term... but I guess I'll run with the title to avoid a semantics debate. My website (attached) would give a better understanding of my positions... :) Regarding the straw man - I've spokent to many trots etc and many have made such silly comments... though I understand that it's not necessarily representative of the all lefties... :)

Regarding homophobia - homo (from homosexual - "same" sexual), ie gay. phobia - a fear of...
e.g. aracnophobia (fear of aracnads (spiders)).
I'm just being literal... :)

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To Adam: I don't deny that there was a big falling out between anarchists and communists - but hardly proves anything. As Hayek points out in "The road to serfdom" - communist groups are likely to show creater antagonism to other communist groups than liberals (classical liberals). anarchism did grow from communism and I'd ask you to give a better short intro to leftist anarchism to the un-informed in one short sentence.

maybe you (and others) would do well to read up on comparative anarchism...

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/anarfaq.htm

and explore that website in general... you could learn something... :)

Your hollow accusations of "ignorance" show only spite and the fact that it's obviously incorrect only makes you look stupid.

Also - you'll note Marx coined the term "Capitalism" as an insult... he also attached a confusing meaning to it that has resulted in most leftists not understanding what it is that they oppose... subsequently, some leftists discribe the Soviet Union as "State-capitalism" which is the ultimate oxy-moron and corruption of the traditional understanding of political philosophy.

While I admire Rand, she was not my inspiration. Though I doubt you've actually read her works... and yes, libertarianism supports the free market. I'm willing to explain at length why this is so genuine and intellegent people... but you'd do better to explore the wealth of info on the net anyway. www.geocities.com/libertarian_society has a useful list of links.

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To Ric: I hadn't read Kane's other works, and I doubt they're worth going back for so I wont be doing that. I was giving a brief and simple explaination of the distinction between different anarchies. I wasn't giving a complete tutorial - though I don't doubt that most people here do need one... can you (for instance) outline the basic distinctions between anarcho-syndicalism and anarcho-capitalism? or is stone throwing as far as you get?

I have read Chomsky, and debated his writings extensively... he is typical of left anarchists and I don't find him particularly intellegent or challanging. Now - have you read and effectively rebutted David Friedman (note: not Milton Friedman) and Murry Rothbard? have you even heard of them? or are your attacks on my understanding hollow also?

your brief writing about free market philosophies shows a total and utter lack of understanding... and further show an unwillingness to gain any reasonable level of understanding... quite depressing actually. If the left hate being misunderstood so much - the least you could do is research those you disagree with a bit more!! I have, and subsequently could probably teach many of you people about Marxism, Communism and leftist anarchism. I could definitely give a better critique of capitalism than you've given... and then the critique of that...

...and then you have the guile to call me ignorant! It depresses me that so many well-meaning and not stupid people can remain happy in their limited knowledge of political philosophy, and subsequently end up supporting systems that they would otherwise not support if only they bothered gaining a fuller understanding... :(

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To preditor: you talk of self-organising processes in biological systems... well that is exactly the theory that capitalism subscribes to. As Hayek and Mises point out - libertarian, or anarcho-capitalism would be ruled by "spontaneous order" - indicating that a govt is not needed. I presume you're making a similar point with leftist anarchism, but might be interested to hear that academic capitalists have been studying and pushing the same concept for a long time... :)

and economic rationalism would not lead to the conclusion that Kane should cut off his head... :) ...but I'm sure you knew that.

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To Robert: well, after getting through all the other comments, I find myself short of patience when I get to you...

I was not putting forward an argument concerning anarchism, but a simplifying explaination... I thought that was quite obvious actually.

Re: homophobia. It certainly does pre-date capitalism. The acceptence of homosexual acts has indeed been a regular part of many different societies at many different times in history and yes - and am fully aware of the culture of ancient greece and rome. That said, liberal theory (what you call capitalism) claims that homosexuals should be free to act as they wish... it is conservativism (not unrelated to the Mercantilism that pre-dates "capitalism") that has traditionally opposes homosexuality.

As for anarcho-capitalism - I could spend hours explaining this to you... but I don't know if it would do any good. Personally I find anarcho-capitalism to be the only realistic and philosophicall internally consistant anarchist theory.

Brief explaination. There is the market (free and voluntary exchange that lefties hate) and the State (the govt which controls us through its monopoly on force). This is the real choice in the world and I encourage you all to explore this dichotomy closely. Liberals (you call capitalists) believe in a small govt and maximum freedom, while socialists believe in a large govt and not much market.

anarcho-capitalists just take liberalism to it's extreme... abolish the govt and let free and voluntary transations rule...

leftist anarchism wants to get rid of both the market and the state. they want to get rid of both coersive action and voluntary action - which I think it utterly stupid. Of course, they don't describe it like this... :)

As for inequlity - of course there will be and that's a good thing... not intellegent person disagrees. It is unequal for some to be tall, others short... for some to like surfing, others golf... for some to like fast cars, others pushbikes...
- people are different. some people would _FREELY CHOOSE_ to gain less money and spend more time surfing etc. To FORCE this person to behave like others would create equality... but would be a stupid idea. You have absolutely no idea about theories concerning equality, what causes inequality, the morals of inequality etc... so please don't frustrate me by making stupid comments.

All states are controlled. That's a major reason anarcho-capitalists want to abolish it!! Of course big business can't control something that doesn't exist! But they can and do now! as does a thousand other "special interest groups" that end up fucking themselves and everyone else over in the end... thank you big government... thank you socialism.

It is much more possible to abolish the state if it is replaced by the market... otherwise what is it replaced by?? coersive action can only be replaced by voluntary action.... there is no third option.

It is (again) just stupid to think that Bill Gates will raise an army to take over the world! There is indeed a potential problem of private coersion in anarcho-capitalist theory with several possible solutions (big discussin) - but this problem exists also with leftist anarchism. But I doubt you have any idea what I'm talking about as you've probably ignored all the necessary metaphysics required to understand these issues...

I've taken what you've said badly coz of your last comments. I believe what I believe because I think it's the best outcome for humanity. I've spent years looking into these things and am pashionate about how the world can be improved. Your insinuation that I'm in this for my own self interest is wrong, and offensive and ironic given socialists live on the mantra of take from others so that they don't have to work for themselves!

It upsets me that somebody so ignorant and obviously unintersted in the _REAL_ welfare of humanity can get away with calling me greedy. Your uninformed and judgemental comments re-inforce the degree to which the left campaign needs not build itself on the back of intellegent and resonable thought...

John :)

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