Do you believe? -- Utah's Religion Debate

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Date Posted: 14:09:25 03/20/09 Fri
Author: Capital Rendition
Subject: Do you believe?
In reply to: Mormon 210 's message, "Re: The deity of Jesus Christ" on 14:40:19 05/15/06 Mon

>Lord,
>
>Again, regarding whether Christ was married. Have you proven to me that He wasn't? I stated categorically that He was married based on the logical construction of circumstantial evidence that I have available

Okay, when I became Christian, He said to me "Ask and it shall be given." He didn't say "I was married" or "I was single." He didn't tell me "Go bash LDS's & JW's." What he said was "Appreciate peoples' differences, but do not involve yourself in doubtful disputations -- they are as POISON to you." I've tried to live that for over 35 years, and I see no point in changing now. My faith is not based on Jesus' virginity or supposed lack of it; nor does the idea of His possible marriage to Miryam of Magdala threaten my faith in any way. My faith is based in the fact that He saved my life 35 years ago and I have never regretted it. Every word of Scripture could be made false, yet I would still believe in my Saviour.

>(lacking physical evidence-I never met Him nor anyone that knew him,

Sad. That was the comment that prompted my response.

"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:25-28)

"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM THOU HAST SENT." (John 17:1-3)

If you never met him or anyone who even claims to know him, by what standard are you claiming to to follow him?

>nor do I have an acceptable document making this contention). THE PREMISE IS THAT HE CREATED THE LAWS AND IN ORDER TO REMAIN PERFECT HE WOULD HAVE TO OBEY THEM.
>
>I also stated I did not have a document that stated Christ was married so absent that form of evidence you requested, I formed my hypothesis on circumstantial evidence and logical analysis.
>
>Thus I answered your question, I gave you the available evidence that I have. What else would you like?
>
>Mormon 210

False premise. Jesus, during his earthly ministry, made it clear that the worldly accretions on the law were all man-made, and vastly inferior to the PRE-EXISTING law of God.

"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO." (Matthew 19:3-8)

"This people honoreth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men." (Matthew 15:8-9; reference is to Isaiah 29:13)

"At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT IN THIS PLACE IS ONE GREATER THAN THE TEMPLE. BUT IF YE HAD KNOWN WHAT THIS MEANETH, I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE, YE WOULD NOT HAVE CONDEMNED THE GUILTLESS. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."
(Matthew 12:1-8; reference is to Hosea 6:6)

The point I'm trying to make here, is that, if you are claiming to be Christian, I am finding that I have less in common with you than what I was willing to grant you, on good will alone. You claim no personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This is sad. You claim that Jesus had to follow what would properly be called the traditions of men. Jesus tells us to "Judge not according to appearances, but judge with right judgment." What you said here, you "appear" to be doing more of the former than the latter, thus calling your own conclusions into doubt. I don't believe that that is what you intended.

You've got to do better. Be visionary.
========================================================
========================================================

THE VISIONARY

(Find the Path)

The LORD GOD Almighty came to the Visionary,
and speaking into his dream, declared:

"I am the LORD Your GOD who will bless you
My Child, for fulfilling My Commandments

For your love of My People
For your faithful declarations
For your intercessions for My Holy City
For all you have done in My Name

But you are hated for the sake of My Holy Name
And even now 'your life is on the line'
But you are preserved by My Boundless Mercy
If you remain in My Word

So take your family and flee this faithless land,
this cursed land -- 'Come out from amongst them, My People!
Pass through mists of darkness in the wilds as I command
For beyond lies the path to My Blessings."

[from "The Dream of Leihi" in "The Book of Mormon for Today", (c)2005 The Church of Jesus Christ, Lord of the Third Day, a.k.a. The Church of the Third Day (C3D)]

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