Re: The Pledge - some comments/clearing up some misconceptions about religion in public schools -- Adilbrand Noblesword's Hall of Warriors

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Date Posted: 16:35:21 07/12/02 Fri
Author: mt. healthy mountaineer
Subject: Re: The Pledge - some comments/clearing up some misconceptions about religion in public schools
In reply to: Bill 's message, "Re: The Pledge - some comments" on 04:01:19 07/12/02 Fri

"There is something I don't quite understand in all of this: The supreme court decides whether they are going to hear a case on a particular subject or not"

This case was not heard by the Supreme Court, but rather by the ninth circuit court of appeals in San Francisco - they are notoriously liberal and routinely have their decisions reversed, often by 9-0 votes by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will most likely find the "under God" part of the Pledge to be innocuous, for the reason that no one pays much attention to the Pledge in the first place.

"Under the current rigeme it is prohibited to pray in school."

False - it is prohibited for a teacher or school employee to lead a student prayer. I've been involved in events that are student-initiated, such as "Meet you at the Pole" - a day in which everyone is invited to go to the flagpole before school for prayer. I'm allowed to be there - my freedom of religion is not allowed to be constrained, but I'm not allowed to preach religion or lead the prayer myself in the school environment due to my position of authority in the eyes of the students - that is considered state sanctioning of a religion due to the fact that I am paid to teach students by a government entity.

"It is prohibited to teach about God or beliefs"

It is not prohibited to teach about God or beliefs, so long as it is in the confines of a religious studies class - every 7th grade Social Studies class in Indiana learns (or should) about Islam. Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Shintoism, Hinduism, animism and other religions from Africa and Asia.

This has been standard practice for decades. My Grandpa (and Vince's) fired a teacher in the 50s from the local elementary (about 1/4 mile from Vince's boyhood estate) when he was school trustee because she continued to evangelize in her classroom after repeated warnings not to.

As for teachers teaching about God - if MVD were a teacher, I would not want him teaching his religious beliefs as fact to my daughter. I'm sure the reverse is the same for me and his boy. And that is the crux of the issue.

To expand a bit, if I am asked about my religious beliefs, I am allowed to briefly state them. I have been asked, usually in the midst of a discussion about my beliefs (Usually something like, "Do you go to church?" or "Do you believe in God?") and I briefly say where I go to church or I answer the specific question they had about my beliefs and we move on.

"Students aren't even allowed to lead prayers themselves"

False. Students can lead all the prayers they want, they just cannot be government-sponsored. For example, the school cannot schedule a prayer time in during a graduation ceremony. However, if the valedictorian wants to include a prayer in his/her speech, that is entirely legal - it is student-intitiated.

"I hear that when planes started falling on the government in washington, the government declared that it is temporarily legal for schools to pray as long as it is for them :)"

No, that did not happen. We had a one-minute moment of silence on Sept. 11, 12 and maybe the 13th. You could pray or you could pick your toenails - all that was required was silence.

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Assuming, of course, that I had religious beliefs.... ;) (NT) -- mvd, 16:41:01 07/12/02 Fri