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Subject: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 13:53:50 02/19/08 Tue Hello- Was reading your forum and wanted to invite you to Sun & Moon Dojo in Greensboro, NC. If you are interested in MMA then you should definitely come check us out. Our instructor, Shihan Shameek, is highly skilled (5th dan and above) in various styles of ju-jitsu and kenpo. Boxing and grappling are essential components of what we do. We are located at 1208 Grove St, Greensboro NC, 27403. For more info please call 336.554.5370 or check out http://sunandmoondojo.blogspot.com/. If you are in the area, check us out! Todd P.S. Is the Neo-Gen website still operational? I would like to list our school there as well. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: white crane fan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:39:14 02/19/08 Tue wow man your school is apart of the The White Crane Research Instiutute Movement, that is good in MMA i think?? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Brandon Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:47:39 02/20/08 Wed Very interesting you ask for donations to run a business. That makes me feel strange. Also since you brought this to a MMA forum, how many people training there have competed in MMA? How many will compete in the next 6 months? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:05:28 02/20/08 Wed Not trying to offend or challenge anyone. Yes, we are a new business and accept donations. As a business that serves the community I see no problem with asking folks for help, but I did not do that here on this forum. We are in a new location and are just opening our doors for those interested in training in MMA. Come check us out if you like; I don't see anybody listed in the Greensboro area. Todd [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Brandon Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:32:30 02/20/08 Wed Also since you brought this to a MMA forum, how many people training there have competed in MMA? How many will compete in the next 6 months? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: White Crane Fan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:22:12 02/21/08 Thu Brandon Does that answer your question?? "no comment" [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Brandon Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:40:12 02/21/08 Thu This isnt the busiest forum around, so I am willing to wait a couple days for some sort of response before I call it a no comment. But the question I asked IS what makes a MMA gym a MMA gym....people fighting and competing (with success) out of said gym. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: I went to an academy that i was asked to make a donation Author: White Crane [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:50:12 02/22/08 Fri I went to an academy that i was asked to make a donation, yes they called it tithing i think it was 10% of my income and i had to bow at a cross and pray and there was someone up on stage that i had....??? oh no that was my church. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:26:35 02/22/08 Fri Brandon and others, We are just opening our doors to the public. Previously we were training privately with my instructor and these students are focused on self-defense. To answer your question, we have no MMA fighters competing out of our dojo currently because like I have said several times we are just now opening. This is listed as the forum for the NEO-GEN website. The home page says,"This site is dedicated to the promotion of realistic training within the martial arts. Our focus will be on the Mixed Martial Arts as a whole to include all forms of Grappling, Striking, Vale Tudo/Free Fighting, and Self Protection/Combatives. Hopefully, with the support from this site and the many other mixed martial artists that reside in our area, we will be able to spread the value of crosstraining and mixed martial arts to other individuals and training groups." I announced our dojo on this forum because folks in the Greensboro area could benefit. Since I made that announcement, the majority of the responses have been attacking and challenging. I have not made any claims other than that if you are interested in training in MMA to come check us out. I still stand by that. Like I said on another post, anyone can claim anything over the internet. If you come take a class (first one free) with Shihan Shameek and then are not satisfied then post your criticism. I never requested a donation from folks here. Our blog lets folks in our community know how they can support us; nothing more, nothing less. Why that makes anyone "feel strange" I'm not sure. I'm not going to bother to respond to the various other criticisms because frankly, they are totally invalid and immature. If you all truly want to grow MMA then act professionally. If you want it to be a private club which allow folks to email and talk junk, then change nothing. Martial arts, mixed or otherwise are more than being able to beat the crap out of someone. Discipline and respect are essential to the arts. Todd [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:54:48 02/22/08 Fri Using the MMA abbreviation lends itself towards competition. Mainly because the term is MUCH more mainstream now than it was 11 years ago (when I started training for MMA competition) and alot of instructors who care more about ways to make a buck are using the term very loosely to mean a "mixing of the different arts" knowing that is NOT what the general meaning is (meaning the general term is more competiton based). Quite simply its geared around the training it takes to fight/compete in a MMA event. Whether people training in such an enviroment want to take it to a level where they ever compete is 100% up to them. I see alot of mma/grappling signs in places these days where I know that was not the focus of such places and styles in the past. It seems the focus changed a few years ago when MMA suddenly became a lucrative marketing term. Part of acting professional is HAVING THE QUALIFICATIONS TO BE professional in a training/teaching role for others. If I seem rude its because I am very blunt. Anyone who knows me (and several folks on this forum do) knows I say exactly what I think, all the time, for better or worse. I would like nothing better than the general public at large to be smitten with the idea of training at a legitimate gym where things that have been shown to be effective and practical in MMA are taught by people well qualified to teach them. BUT I dont want every guy who has ever seen how to lock a straight armlock or wrench a heelhook to be open for business and start teaching. I have been around the sport for 11 years, and I have seen just about everything from superb instructors to guys who basically made up their resume's and started "teaching" folks who simply had no idea what they were learning was incomplete jargon (usually its guy who know a couple submissions are are TERRIBLE with transitions and positions and the technical details) because MMA and effective grappling were very much hard to come by. Now more people are informed, but the general public is still not going to know a proper technique from one learned the night before off a tape. Guys like that (bullshitters) will do more to kill MMA than any amount of internet talk. I dont know if your guy is a bullshitter or not. I do know alot of the legit guys around the state. From them I can get a contact name of most anyone who has a legitimate background. I dont know your guy and have never heard of him. SO I asked direct questions about the gym/school and the donation thing. As for me coming by and training, No point at all in that. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Jes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:59:05 02/23/08 Sat The guy merely said "If you are interested in MMA" you might want to check him out. He didn't say "If you want to train like a real UFC champ, come to our gym, we offer the best in MMA training". I understand the concern about McDojo's popping up and everyone saying they do MMA these days, but he didn't say that. I don't think it says that on the website either. Why all the hate? Hardly anyone comes to or posts on this forum, and when someone new shows up, he gets flamed. That hardly builds community or support for MMA in NC. I don't know anything about this guy. Maybe his school is crap. Maybe not. I could care less. Neal makes good points. But I don't think Todd's post warranted the pretentious backlash of the earlier posts. He is correct about the webpage saying "Our focus will be on the Mixed Martial Arts as a whole to include all forms of Grappling, Striking, Vale Tudo/Free Fighting, and Self Protection/Combatives." If that's not the case, then maybe you should change it to say "Our focus will only be on MMA that involves a bunch of dudes in TapOut shorts wrasslin' each other in a garage" [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:43:11 02/23/08 Sat I only asked one question, and it was directed at competition. I in no way flamed the guy. A flame IMO is something rude someone might say with the shield of anonymity. I said EXACTLY what I would say face to face, and asked the exact questions I would ask face to face. Simple as that. As for TapOut Shorts.......I have only seen maybe one pair of tap out shorts in the past 7 months, and I run a MMA gym. Maybe we need to get with the program? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: jes [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:27:38 02/24/08 Sun Okay, maybe my post was slightly over the top. But honestly, did anyone ask him how many 'fighters' are at the gym because they genuinely wanted to know? I don't think so. The question seemed a little more pointed than that. And "WhiteCraneFan" also seems genuine in his questions.... Do you have to have MMA competitors at your gym to be listed on the Neo-Gen website? I know that as a forum, it is hard to tell the 'tone' of things people are saying sometimes. But the 'tone' towards the new guy didn't seem so nice. If I'm wrong, then my bad. I just want everyone to play nice, as I think it will build a much stronger support system as MMA comes onto the scene in NC. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:27:14 02/24/08 Sun I asked regarding fighters because I wanted to know, there are guys out there putting guys in the ring that I dont know personally, but have heard of their teams. I like to file em away so that when I am getting my guy's fights I will remember the name of the team/gym. As for being nice, I'm much more for direct than nice. The donation thing was odd to me, and I saw if off the link provided, and I said it was odd. So to the point honesty is out of vouge now? Its not like I ridiculed the guy or said anything I wouldnt say in person (this is my actual name, not a screen name) regarding a place for MMA training. Just a point of fact question. As for support systems.....I can see your point, but I have a different requirement than some maybe to be called a MMA training facility. I am not going to say no one should ever train there, but for me or any of my guys if they find themselves out of town I also like to know the gyms/schools that are like - minded to what I expect. There you have it. I dont think from his answers his goals (or the gyms) are the same as mine. So there would be no need for me to train there or for any of my guys to do so if they were around Greensboro. It wont hurt their attendance or business one bit. That's why I asked him the fight question. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: SES [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:19:45 02/24/08 Sun Referee Will Dorsett.....What he says in this interview basically is sound advice for anyone new to the sport, Fighter, Trainer, coach, owner and so on.....SES!!!1 [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:27:33 02/27/08 Wed Thanks Jes for your response; that's more or less where I'm coming from. I also agree with the referee post. I'm not an MMA competitor, I study for self-defense and a love of the arts. That said, what we study falls under what is currently being called MMA. Jujitsu, boxing, grappling (including BJJ), muay thai, kenpo are an integral part of what we do. My instructor's lineage includes greats such as Dr. Moses Powell, Professor Wally Jay and Ed Parker. The innovations of these men along with folks like the Gracies are a huge part of what is today being called MMA. I posted here to let folks know about Sun and Moon Dojo. Jes is right that we are not promising to make anyone a UFC champ. On the other hand, if you want to train hard with a knowledgeable instructor, Sun and Moon has a lot to offer. Whether your goals our compatible with our own, Neal, I don't know. As for your statement that there is "no point" in coming to check us out, I imagine that has more to do with your affiliation with Team ROC and the fact that they are restarting another training center in Greensboro than anything we might disagree about. Todd [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:02:48 02/27/08 Wed O.K. Was going to rant a bit, as your implication got my blood up a bit. Team ROC is a very loose organization. I have ZERO idea of what teams are where or who does what. I know Greg, jason, Billy, Brian, and Spencer. Outside those guys, I have no idea who is wher or what they do. I have no idea if there is a ROC within 50 miles of Greensboro, or if there ever will be one (there are like 12-14 ROC affiliates to the best of my knowledge, which in this area is weak). My opinion is my own plain and simple, influenced by no one, and it is my opinion that there would be no point because I would wipe the mat with everyone in the joint. Is that clear enough for you? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:41:10 02/29/08 Fri I first posted here on the 19th about our dojo in Greensboro. Team ROC newsletter announced the re-opening of the Greensboro affiliate on the 20th. http://www.team-roc.com/news/index.html From the start of posting here I have been challenged to prove that we are legit. Neal, you said that you know most folks or can find out who is legit or who is not; the implication being that since you don't know us we are not legit. I have continued to be polite throughout this discussion and merely point out that for someone who claims to be an authority on MMA in NC that you now say you "have ZERO idea of what teams are where or who does what" when it comes to Team ROC affiliates. Maybe I assumed to much, but I thought for someone who seems to know a lot about MMA in NC that you would know what schools you are affiliated with are doing (or that they even exist). I have been asked several times that since I "brought this to a MMA forum, how many people training there have competed in MMA? How many will compete in the next 6 months?" Should you not know the answer to this for your own affiliates? I pointed out the Team ROC affiliate in Greensboro b/c it seems like you have an undue amount of animosity towards us who you do not know but are unquestioning of folks who share your affiliation. As for you being able to "wipe the mat with everyone" at our school, are we in middle school? I'm letting this discussion go b/c it seems like it has ceased to be productive. The offer still stands for anyone with an open mind to come check us out. I very much doubt that you will be disappointed. Sun and Moon at 1208 Grove St, Greensboro, NC 27403. Call 336.554.5370 for training schedules or questions. Have a good one- Todd [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:38:38 02/29/08 Fri "As for you being able to "wipe the mat with everyone" at our school, are we in middle school?" No but you seemed to want to just make things up regarding why there would be no point in me training there. So I gave you a much closer to the point reason instead of crap you just made up. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Dr. Moses Powell, Professor Wally Jay and Ed Parker??? Author: Just asking?? [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:15:39 03/03/08 Mon i do know the last one Ed Parker, think Ed Parker Jr was on the Karate Kid movie, i think well at least if you said Chuck NOrris i would have belived you he at least went out in public and said BJJ is the Best Hand to Hand Combat style,he has ever seen, has he gotten his black belt in BJJ yet?? or still a brown belt?? This is so stupid instuctors reninventing themselfs to the recent popular thing, before it was the Karate people calling what they did TKD then came the Nijitsu thingy now they Jump on the MMA scene, and the JKD learning BJJ and calling it the modern JKD. GUYS it is BJJ and MTKB still is hard to beat. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Rob [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:39:50 03/04/08 Tue It's your business what you teach, but to think that Team ROC is out to get you is a little on the crazy side. Also I'm under the impression that Team ROC schools are independantly owned and operated. That means that unless all the instructors get together for a meeting every week then there wouldn't be too much intimate details shared between the academies. Also, most of the Team ROC schools aren't in that close proximity to each other. I can't say too much about your academy, but asking for donations to start a school is kind of on the suspect side. I would figure that a bank would probably be the best bet to get money to open a school, or some investors. Teaching "MMA" is getting to be all the rage. If your training speaks for itself then don't call it MMA, because you're not training people to be MMA fighters. Have you had ring experience, MMA or otherwise? Do you plan on training people to fight? I'm just curious. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Todd Warren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:48:55 03/06/08 Thu I definitely don't think that any Team ROC schools are out to get us; my point is that since I've posted here there has been a lot of challenges to what we do and all I can say is come check it out. If you don't want to no hard feelings, but all this posturing isn't necessary. My point to Neal was that he doesn't know if my instructor is a "bullshitter" or not because he hasn't heard of him. Then he said he doesn't know what the Team ROC affiliate is doing in Greensboro. That's fine, but then acknowledge that just b/c you don't know somebody doesn't make them suspect. It was also strangely coincidental that the day after I posted here there appeared an announcement about the reopening of the Team ROC gym in Greensboro. At Sun and Moon Dojo we are available to train folks interested in MMA. Yes, our instructor, Shihan Shameek has ring experience training amateur and professional boxers. Before our recent opening, we were private students and we studied for self defense. Now that we are open we are accepting students for a variety of classes and training; including MMA. Being that MMA is rising sport it should not be surprising that as schools open that some offer MMA training. I understand the concern about which schools are legit or not. But, as Jes pointed out in an earlier post, we are not claiming to make someone the next UFC champ. My promise is only that you will not be disappointed if you come check us out. Todd [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Sun and Moon Dojo Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:40:45 03/06/08 Thu I never said your guy was a bullshitter or that me not knowing him made him so. Now that you have finally simply said you are going to train guys to compete THAT IS ALL I WANTED TO KNOW. If you are going to put guys in the ring, then you are IMO a MMA training facility. THAT was my point all along. How good you are at it isnt my concern, the ring itself will determine that. What was my concern is people saying they are teaching/training people for MMA but without intentions of having them fight. I was way hot under the collar when you implied I am a ROC mouthpeice. The people who train with me or at my gym know my affiliations with ROC are fairly loose, but I have ties with 2-3 of the other gym operators. I have no interest in challenges, or dojo storming. I do not care for people trying to use MMA to get saps into the school and into contracts. If you are putting people in the ring as you have implied now You are fine by me. The wiping the mat comments were uncalled for and less than professional. I have your school name down and look forward to seeing some of your guys fighting in the next year or so. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]