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Subject: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 00:33:59 11/13/08 Thu Up a bit late and have a question for any of the fighters/corner men out there. I have noticed on several occassions that many of the Boxing authority's agents (A.L.E. guys and the state gov employees) to have what I would call somewhat unprofessional demeanors or to be less than informed as to exactly what the rules and regs governing MMA are. The amatuer 3-5 pound rule for a "float" is a good one. Why in heck is there a float period? The rule is IMO not properly used anyway. The rule is supposed to ne there to allow fights between guys if one shows up a little heavy IF THE CORNERS AND FIGHERS AGREE TO THAT. The Authority seems to think its simply a rule that they make the only say on, and even if it is some dont know there is a float, and to be honest why is there a float? IMO a weight class is just that, a weight class. Period. Next up, I personally dont care to be talked to like a perp. I understand 100% there are rules and regs and such. BUT if at a fighter meeting a rules question is SPECIFICALLY asked about and the answer is given one way, I really dont need an A.L.E guy giving me crap in the corner because he says I have too many people in the corner. ESPECIALLY when at the meeting in question there was that specific issue directly addressed. AND THE SAME DUDE WAS AT THE MEETING AND DID NOT SAY A THING. THe ref at the meeting said it did not matter about # of corners so long as they kept down and stayed out of the way. That one still gets me pissed because of the way the guy handed it. Middle of the second round was a bad time to yap about it, especially threatening a DQ when he and all his buds were at the meeting and didnt say a thing about it before. Sort of made me think none of them knew and had to be told later in the night, and though one more guy outside the ring was not going to make a difference no matter what he had to say something and make one of the guys leave. The other thing, and this is certainly not every official, some of them area very courteous and polite. But every so often one tries to literally speak to fighters and corners as if we are perps, or in a halfway house for drug addicts. These sorts act as if they are doing the biggest favor in the world to the guys fighting by letting them fight. It costs a mint to fight in NC, the state is making serious bank from the licensing and the ticket sales and not a dollar is actually generated by a thing they do. Lastly, there is no med coverage of any sort for any ammys fighting. Last I checked cuts are common for small gloves. I am not asking for a life policy, just some damn stitches or enough coverage for a once over at a hospital if needed. How much would that really cost per fighter? 25-50 bucks? If its prohibitive for the promoters (due to costs) the state should flat out subsidize it, since they are, from what I have seen taking ALOT and giving very little. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:34:47 11/13/08 Thu Forgot the question, anyone seen any of this? Agree/disagree? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Kelvin Hunt [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:58:21 11/13/08 Thu Neal, I'm neither a cornerman nor a fighter, but regards to the weight classes. I agree there are weigh classes for a reason there shouldn't even be a float. In regards to your other concerns...I'm working on something that you and everyone with concerns can voice their opinion on...hopefully I'll be able to provide more information in the next week or so. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Rodney [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:11:27 11/17/08 Mon Hi Neal, Unfortunately I am only a fan of MMA and not lucky enough to be involved directly with any one promotion, fighter, or event. So I have not seen these practices in person. At the risk of being scorned and burned at the stake, I'll mention that I used to do a little professional wrestling in VA, and that was covered under the states Boxing/Athletic commission. Some of the "antics" you mention here were pretty common even in regulation of the "fake" sport of prowrestling. I believe it all just boils down to an abuse of power... and is exasperated by personality flaws in the individuals themselves. I can't think of a way to get around it... because I encounter these types of people in every aspect of life. Whether it be a customer in my shop or behind them in line at the grocery store. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: bright [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:55:33 11/17/08 Mon I am with you on the perp feeling. I have cornered at both MMA and Boxing events and at least they are consistant in making everyone feel like they are under arrest. The refs seem pretty cool though. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:18:44 11/18/08 Tue Neal the floater rule has only recently been abused, or misused. The way I understand it was that 3-5 pounds was a way for fighters of different weight classes to be able to fight I got kicked out of a weigh in recently because the guys who were running the weight in didn’t know what they were doing. They let a title match champion leave after he was 4 pounds over weight, before the challenger weighted in he weight in 3 pounds under weight that made a 7 pound spread. Then they came to me saying we got a problem I said you got a problem now the champion was down a McDonalds and wasn’t able to make weight. Great !!! The Floater rule is being used way too many times now. To the point that a lot of the fighters are using that as a buffer, and that is wrong, you say you are fighting at 170, 185, or 155 that is where you should be at not at 174 159 or 189. Now most of my guys fight at about 2-3 pounds under their walk weight, and if you want to cut 20-30 pounds to fight that is fine, but you cant stop short. If one fighter was prepared and you were not and shows up 4 pounds over, guess what, you put on the vinyl suit and lets cuts that weight while the other fighter takes a nap, because he was prepared. And you were not. After going some rounds with the boxing commission, and some apology for the incompetent officers, Jason and Sherry told me the only why they can make the promoters enforce the weight classes (that sounded funny) was to put the fighters in a weight contract. Seemed a little bit extreme to get someone to show up at the weight they should be. The contract allows the Boxing commission fine the fighter if they don’t show up or they don’t show up at the stated weight. I think, or hope, the boxing commission will be doing a better job at that rule from now on. But you have to be able to walk away from a fight or two. Kina hard when your fighter is saying in your ear “coach I want to fight him” then you get to watch him loose a close spilt decision. That you knew would have made a difference if they made him run off that last 4 pounds. Live and Learn James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:53:22 11/18/08 Tue “Jason and Sherry told me the only why they can make the promoters” Sorry I meant “way” spell check is smarter then me And about the “talked to like a perp” after I got thrown out of the weigh ins my last fighter weighed in and asked the Boxing commission official what did his opponent weigh in at and he was told “we will tell you later” what?? Like you are not allowed to know what the other guy weighed in at. That makes no sense, later I found out the other guy did make weight but certainly don’t make you comfortable when you are putting you guys in events. And the boxing commission is overseeing these events. James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:59:20 11/18/08 Tue Neal "there is no med coverage of any sort for any ammys fighting." Really? I was told the promoter had to provide medical/accident insurance on each of the fighters. and they were charged for each fighter. so that is news to me. but i have limited knowage on that part. James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:50:02 11/18/08 Tue Its in the printed rules for the state, and I was at the rules meeting way back last dec. Its in plain english, Amatuers have ZERO coverage. For every PROFESSIONAL fighter promoters must provide 2500 (could be wrong that was the number last december) worth of coverage per fighter. But those are pros. No insurance at all for amatuers. That's why the waiver/release clearly states they are not going to provide any medical work or assistance at all should you get hurt. Who told you the promoter covers amatuer fighters? It would be news to me, but things can change (the finalized copy of the rules I read made no mention of amatuer coverage though. The floater rule is now being abused because people are just now realizing there is one. IMO its for people who BEFORE the event agree to fight at a weight or with a weight difference. Not for a guy to show up at 175 and expect that to be OK to assume his opponent is 170. The real problem is promoters use it to make fights no matter what and the commission thinks it means they can say its ok for a guy to be over. IMO its MY call and my fighter's call if its ok for a guy to be over, not the promoters, not the commissions. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 05:35:07 11/19/08 Wed "IMO its MY call and my fighter's call" I feel 1000% precent the same, and I have made my voice known on that to the point that when it happens again the Boxing Commision and the Promoters will know I will Object to it. oh and the insurance part was from a conversation I had with Sherry at the boxing commision, she told me is cost about $800 for a small event to cover the fighters in case of a accident, in addition someone could file a claim, for medical exspenses on your bond you have to provide to the Boxing Comission. we was at an totaly amatuer event i thought we were talking about an amatuer fighters. but other then that mabye she was talking about a Pro event. but I have never done an event as an promoter so i could be wrong. wouldnt be the first time, wouldnt be the last time. but that is where I got my information. James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:33:31 11/19/08 Wed The EVENT is insured, but the event/promoter has no med coverage for the actual fighters, sort of a liability thing that wont cover med cost, but WILL cover someone suing the promoter. At least that's what I gathered. Basically they pay the same insurance a concert promoter would, ie covers weird accidents but no covering the actual fighters for cuts and such they get from the fight. I know this, the waiver ammy's sign say very clearly the promoter is in no way liable for any medical charges. I had to take a kid to the hospital after a fight recently ( a fight he won, the heart this guy has is rediculous) and the promoter made NO hint or offer regarding some sort of coverage, neither did the boxing guys. They ALL knew I was taking him too. So I am pretty sure medicals for fighters fighting are not covered (but they would be covered if they slipped on a banana peel and cut their head on the floor I think. Silly IMO. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:52:28 11/20/08 Thu Neal Call Sheree at the boxing commision. The Promoters are required to cover up to $2500 of medical on each fighter. if you call her she will give you the information on the insurance company of that event your fighter faught in. you have to seek medical attention with in 24 hours of the fight, (that you did, you said you took him to the hospital that night) you should be able to file for the reinburstment of your fighters medical bills. also think you have to start you claim with in two weeks or a month, not sure about that part. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:53:18 11/20/08 Thu her number is 919-733-3925 [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:07:21 11/20/08 Thu Got your message, and appreciate the info. BUT why on earth can I not see a printed rule about this anywhere? I read the "prelims" back in Dec. And Hutchins said clearly there would be no insurance requirement for amatuers. If there is one, I think that is fantastic, but why is it so hard to find the simple rules printed anywhere regarding this stuff? It was a bit late when I read this. but I emailed her, and will be calling her tomorrow, the fight was less than a month ago and dont think he should have a problem getting covered. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:51:49 11/21/08 Fri I know there is nothing about it in the rules, maybe between dec 07 and the first event in march 08 they changed this? I don’t know. Probably the reason the promoter didn’t say anything is they don’t want you to file a claim against their insurance, but then again that don’t explain the Boxing Commission wouldn’t advise you on what to do. Sherrie told me that when she knows someone is injured and seeking medical attention she tries to give the coach or the fighter a copy of the insurance policy. I guess she wasn’t there, I haven’t seen her in a few events I have been to. Well I didn’t go to the meeting in December, so I have to ask questions when I get a chance at events and so forth. James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:28:19 11/21/08 Fri Well being at that meeting was in some ways a waste of time. The people there had zero interest in our input, but it does seem as if they do cover all fighters now. I made a request to Sheree that maybe instead of talking so much about telling fighters and cornermen not to walk around cursing and acting like lower life-forms that they could discuss the fact that every fighter is in fact covered for the event medically. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Donnie Markham [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:34:26 11/23/08 Sun I am the promoter of the AFL (Amateur Fight League) and have been a licensed promoter for about 8 years now in the state. I can verify that we are required to have a medical policy in place to cover $2500 per fighter with a $500 deductible. That hasn't changed since I've been a promoter. Here is the rule: 14A NCAC 12 .0404 DUTIES OF PROMOTERS AND MATCHMAKERS (aa) The promoter for the match shall acquire the insurance coverage described in this Chapter and file with the Division written evidence of insurance no later than 72 hours prior to the date of the match. Such evidence of insurance shall specify the name of the insurance company, the insurance policy number, the effective date of the coverage and evidence that each contestant is covered by the insurance. Any deductible associated with the insurance policy shall be paid by the promoter. If the promoter fails to provide evidence of insurance as required in this Chapter the permit shall not be issued or, if issued, the permit shall be suspended and the program of matches shall be canceled. Each contestant in a match held in North Carolina shall be covered by insurance for medical, surgical and hospital care for injuries sustained while engaged in a match. The coverage shall be for an amount not less than two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) for each contestant. I've had a few claims filed over the years but that is what it's for. The policy usually costs anywhere between $800-$1200 per event. As far as the commission goes, I think that things could be run a little better but as with anything new there are always going to be a few mistakes and missteps. I have done 3 MMA events now and working on my 4th and I have seen some of the "tough guy" talk to the fighters, cornermen, and coaches. I am a certified law enforcement officer myself and it seems that several officers seem to think that they are still on the street. We definitely need reps that understand the fight game because then they would understand what most of these fighters have to go through to get ready for a fight and they might be a little more sympathetic. Now, that still doesn't mean that fighters can be disrespectful in any way which I have seen as well. As a promoter, I'm going to take a more proactive role in future events because afterall the commission is suppose to be working on behalf of the promoter not the other way around. A couple of things that I will make sure happens in all future events is that each fighter will be able to see what the other fighter weighs in at so that there won't be any question as to what the other fighter weighed. I will no longer recognize the weight allowances. Each fighter will have to weigh in at their agreed upon weight. A weight class is a weight class. Despite the many improvements that need to be made, I am still grateful that we are able to enjoy the great sport of mma in NC. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: Neal Weaver [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:44:39 11/23/08 Sun Good news regarding the insurance. I still wonder why they said what they did at that meeting way back then. But I suppose he could have simply mis-spoken. Killing the float for your event is IMO the BEST move you could make, then no one can say they didnt know better. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Boxing Authority/Commission Gripe Author: James Speight [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:57:03 11/24/08 Mon That is good donnie and hopefully the rest of the promoters will follow suit. Becaulse if most of the promoters dont stick to the weight classes then the fighters that know about it and fight in other promotions will try to continue to use the allowances. so this rule needs to be canned from the NCBC so that all fighters will know what to exspect in all promotions. James Speight [ Post a Reply to This Message ]