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Subject: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Rodney
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Date Posted: 15:17:27 09/25/08 Thu

Dana White announced the other day that UFC plans on holding a 'Fight for the Troops' special at Fort Bragg on Dec 10th. But some other reports say the military hasn't approved the event yet.

I hope this event works out, as it will help bring NC into the MMA world even more- it would be great to see some undercard fight for local guys.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Hayman
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Date Posted: 19:52:35 09/29/08 Mon

Dana white is a cockknocker and they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near bragg.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Rodney
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Date Posted: 13:17:05 09/30/08 Tue

Tell us how you really feel.. don't hold back. lol.

But seriously, UFC is the biggest MMA company in the United States, maybe the world at this point. Regardless of White's "cockknocking" status, it's still the place that most fighters aspire to reach. So UFC in NC is good imho.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Hayman
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Date Posted: 18:09:24 09/30/08 Tue

At one point, the UFC was the place to be. I can still see why fighters want to make it to the organization. When you're th biggest game in town, it's easy to become full of yourself. The problem I have with the UFC lies in the fact that upper management looks to fuck over the fighters any time one of them tries to pursue other ventures.

Take a look at the whole Randy Couture situation. This guy is a friggin legend in the sport but Dana White & company take a shit all over him when he tries to leave the UFC. There was no leaving in peace to pursue other interests. It was only vindictive mudslinging that Dana White intended to do.

The same situation happened with Tito. Even though Ortiz is a complete asshole, he still made the UFC plenty of money when they were a fledgling organization. When ZUFFA first took over, Ortiz was pushed as the brightest star of mma. So then he had a falling out with his former manager and then president of UFC. All of a sudden, White comes around badmouthing Tito and running him into the ground.

Believe you me, I am no fan of Tito Ortiz. He is one of the most self righteous pricks in the MMA world. But, right is right and the UFC gave him a bad deal.

The UFC coming to NC IS great. It'll make for a good show and solidify what many of us are trying to do in NC. MMA is a beautiful sport. The biggest name in the MMA world will only help out the scene in our state. But to all the up & comers out there....BEWARE! Just like you have to watch your back at all of these shitty fly by night MMA promotions springing up in the tarheel state...you'd better watch out for the UFC.

Do you guys realize that most fighters are offered a contract only if they agree to sign away licensing rights to their name, image, and likeness? That's such shady business bullshit.

This means that no fighter will be able to make money from his own image. They can't sell their own shirts or even make an instructional video without all portions of the monies earned going directly into ZUFFA's fat pockets. Imagine that! If you were a UFC fighter, you couldn't even sell your own signed autograph without first getting permission.

The UFC holds their fighters by the short hairs. Believe it.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 23:26:25 09/30/08 Tue

"Do you guys realize that most fighters are offered a contract only if they agree to sign away licensing rights to their name, image, and likeness? That's such shady business bullshit."

How many professional fight contracts have you seen, because it was (and I am sure still is) for ANY promotion to have guys sign those things over as part of their contract, hell alot of amatuer shows have guys sign that over as well.

I dont totally disagree about what you say about the UFC, but its Naive. The fight game is for grown ups period. And When I say grown ups I mean thick skinned, sharp witted, understanding that NO ONE is looking out for you and you had better damn sure look out for yourself or pay someone pretty good to do so.

Grown men sign contracts. Grown men read these before they sign them. IF a grown man makes a mistake or changes his mind, I am not one to pity him or feel too sorry for him. Last I checked no one MAKES anyone do anything. Also as for Tito and Randy, yeah they caught some flak, but last I checked they are both millionaires too.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Hayman
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Date Posted: 22:02:15 10/01/08 Wed

No one makes anyone do anything...no pity for grown men....making their own choices....

I see your points and I agree with them. However, what you have to realize is that a lot of these younger fighters aren't that savvy. Many guys have come and gone in the UFC. Fighters that could've been something in our sport. But if you don't sign your life away or you aren't part of that "inner circle" you're just gonna get shit on.

Tito & Randy ARE millionaires. But I hope you're not insinuating that they deserve to be treated like shit because Zuffa made them millionaires. That's like your boss telling you that he is gonna take your wife out for a night on the town because he signs your paycheck every week. That's absolutely wrong. Just as it would be wrong to say that someone like Joe Stevenson or Joe Lauzon deserve to get ass handled by the corporate entity of zuffa because they are NOT at the level of tito or randy.

The big picture is that the UFC is pimping a lot of these guys out. When you have worked your ass off for almost a decade...you have fought and fought and fought in smaller shows only to make your way to the big time and find out that the only game in town at that level is looking to bend you over and lube you up....how would that make YOU feel?

But to some guys they sign these contracts because that is all they have in life. Take Forrest Griffin for instance...a helluva nice guy and great fighter. But he was living on someone's fucking couch before being picked for TUF 1. You think he didn't jump at the chance to chase his dream even though he knew he could get fucked in the process? He went for it. And he knew he might not have made it...but that dream was still burning inside him and he had to take the chance. There was no alternative. So now, as fate would have it, he is reaping the rewards.

But I am concerned about the other guys in that same situation who don't make it. They are the sad ones who get screwed by the Zuffa juggernaut. Put yourself in the position of that fighter...or even in the position as the coach of that fighter. It'll make you think.

There is no honor among thieves. That is the total truth. The UFC puts out a great product. That is without a doubt, but the fact of the matter is that their behind the scenes business ethics suck. They really suck. Fighters being bullied into contracts because they need to put food on the table is nothing short of what happened in the 60's & 70's to the Kentucky coal miners. There is no alternative for a lot of these guys. We should all remember that.

Thanks for the good conversation. More?

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 23:26:22 10/01/08 Wed

"But to some guys they sign these contracts because that is all they have in life. Take Forrest Griffin for instance...a helluva nice guy and great fighter. But he was living on someone's fucking couch before being picked for TUF 1. You think he didn't jump at the chance to chase his dream even though he knew he could get fucked in the process? He went for it. And he knew he might not have made it...but that dream was still burning inside him and he had to take the chance. There was no alternative. So now, as fate would have it, he is reaping the rewards."

You do realize Forrest is a college graduate and was already a police officer before he took the "MMA Plunge" dont you? Its not like the guy was going to starve if MMA didnt work out for him and in reality had it not worked out, he would have just gone back to police work, merely 4-5 years "behind" in his career worst case.

Comparing professional athletes to coal miners is flat out silly. Coal miner DIED often back then and die pretty often now a days. People mine coal to feed thier kids, people fight in the UFC because they want rock star treatment. IF you are fighting for nothing and have kids, you need to adjust your priorities and go get a REAL job.

Fighters should take care of themselves. Fighters have always been at the weaker end of negotiations most likely since Romans enjoyed gladiatorial spectacles. IF you decide to take a bad deal its on you. Plain and simple.

I dont remember Dana taking Tito and Randy's wives anywhere. Also I have a feeling if you went into your bosses office after telling him he sucks and that you deserve alot more money that things wont go all that great with your interpersonal relationships. I do think Dana can be petty and gets a bit too personal sometimes. But really do you know anything about promoters? ALOT of them are like that. Elite for example, Gary Shaw is about 10x worse than Dana, bet on that. Right now a guy who is fighting in the prelims of a UFC gets 3k/3k. He also gets some endorsments for getting to the big show (just being in the org gets you paid) IF he finishes his fight he gets a bonus (10-20k, dont know what it is now) IF he gets a KO/SUB of the night he gets a 40K bonus, and if he gets fight of the night he gets a 40k Bonus. Go look and see what guys on big boxing undercards get paid. You will see the UFC is great money for up and comers.

Do some guys sign contracts where they are on the losing end? Yes. Do they get money to PLAY A SPORT? yes. But if you want the big money, you had better have something the UFC cant get from someone else, which is true of any big money combat sport. The fight game is rough business and always has been. You think the UFC is bad, look around at professional boxing and see what guys fight for, that is bad. Yes there are 20mil guys but sometimes there are guys fighting on the same card as those guys for 5-6 hundred bucks. That is screwed up.

Lots of people hate the UFC, and alot of people hate Microsoft, Or GE, or whatever. Something about being the biggest makes you a big target for peoples critiques, but if you really think the UFC is ultimate hardball fight game wise, you need to get around some of the other combat sports or other MMA shows. IME the UFC seems about par for the course rather than some super manevolent entity. But I have never met Dana or had any contact with UFC folks, they could all have forked tails and horns so far as I know. I just dont see anything they do as being out of control in terms of standard fight game practice, they are just the highest profile.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Hayman
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Date Posted: 21:21:04 10/02/08 Thu

But...uhm...well...aw shit....

Mr. Weaver, I tap out to you. You're making alot of valid points here. I am now forced to reconsider some of my views about the UFC.

That being said, I still think the UFC bigwigs are shady. But you make great points. I'm gonna rethink my opinions and give the UFC a chance.

However, i have a question for you, being that we are talking about the UFC. How do you think the UFC of today compares to the golden era when it was run by Bob Meyrowitz? Do you think that ZUFFA is making the right calls?

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 00:05:37 10/03/08 Fri

The UFC is there for the long haul, Meyrowitz wanted a quick buck, thought he could make some money and saw it was an uphill battle due to the political climate. I cant say if he had Zuffa money if it would have turned out better or worse, but he was broke and had to fight legal battles at every turn and had a rapidly diminishing audience.

But keep in mind, during those "golden" years there were ALOT fewer UFCs and there were alot of guys who wanted in. Those guys were fighting in decent shows all over (TJ THompson's show, KOTC, Cox'x EC, etc.) and they would fight in the UFC for 500 bucks for a chance to be on a PPV, and that money was most likely all they would get.

The UFC today is MUCH better for the fighters (ALOT more shows, they have alot more fighters, and the low end guys make alot more money) its just some guys maybe get a lesser deal than they are worth, but they still do MUCH better than guys from the pre-Zuffa era. The fact Dana sort of gloats about it doesnt make it less so.

As for "shady", hell I think 80% of fight promotions would qualify as shady to one degree or another (and I might be generous with that percentage).

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Rodney
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Date Posted: 12:10:53 10/03/08 Fri

Wow. Nice back and forth you guys have going here. Lots of valid points made and countered.

While i agree that any large company should be dealt with using some caution, I also agree that sometimes it's easy to hate the big guys. Like was pointed out, the negative energy on Microsoft, Dell, Ford, etc are good examples. The truth is that all large companies achieved their level of success because they had to stomp on some people's backs... and all of them will stomp some more to stay on top. Yeah, I have heard of all sorts of underhanded tactics by UFC. Especially dealing with the Affliction group. But UFC wants to stay on top, so they will push anyone down at that expense. Can you blame them for fighting to stay on top?

Now for the fighters- what options are out there if they hide from the "big bad ufc". Yeah you can go overseas and fight- or you have the other big groups- WEC or Elite here in the US. Of course UFC and WEC are the same now, and we've all seen and heard the negatives with Elite. So where do the fighters strive to be? I'd guess that 98% of them would PAY to fight in the UFC regardless of Dana White's public feuds, just in the hopes if getting a small slice of that pie.

So do we fault the hungry fighters or the companies who exploit them? Well, if the fighters pockets get fat from their success, I find it hard to feel sorry for them over a contract dispute. So yeah, I think it's a symbiotic relationship. Without the blood and sweat of fighters, the UFC wouldn't make money. But without the UFC, fighters only have the option of $20 local event payouts and a revert to the stone age of MMA with unlicensed shoot fights in a dingy bar.

With that being said. Power should always be questioned... but someone always has the power. Do we let that ruin our day or jump on the bandwagon and try to get our piece? Most guys I know would fight tooth and nail for their share.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Tracey
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Date Posted: 06:25:59 11/15/08 Sat

All this being said, who is going? I tried to click on the "tickets" part of the UFC website and the link is dead.

It's not the best card but I don't know if the UFC will ever get any closer or cheaper to go to.

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[> [> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Rick
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Date Posted: 10:06:52 11/15/08 Sat

I thought only the troops could go, similar to the Miramar show in California.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Tracey
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Date Posted: 17:39:10 11/16/08 Sun

That would explain why the link is dead. Thanks.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Kelvin Hunt
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Date Posted: 18:42:31 11/16/08 Sun

Damn it, I missed the back and forth segments! I would have loved to have chimed in on that...lol. Anyways, just as a heads up for those not in the know. The UFC "Fight For The Troops" event in December will actually be held in Fayetteville, NOT on the base at Ft. Bragg. It will be in the Crown Coliseum which holds about 8,500 people. The general public will not be able to attend as it's only for military personnel(like the Miramar show as someone mentioned). Keep checking out http://mma4real.net as I'll have additional details on the event and fight card is the time approaches. Actually, the fight card has been announced already, you can find it on the UFC website. The event will be a televised 3 hour event on Spike TV.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
bright
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Date Posted: 13:48:38 11/22/08 Sat

Did you see they have 30 seats available to the highest bidder(open to the public)?

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[> [> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Rick
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Date Posted: 14:11:23 11/22/08 Sat

You buy us a pair of tickets, and I'll drive.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
notsobright
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Date Posted: 19:22:16 11/23/08 Sun

that sounds fair! promise me we can ride your scooter and it's a deal.

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[> Subject: Re: UFC in Fort Bragg?


Author:
Kelvin Hunt
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Date Posted: 22:53:02 11/23/08 Sun

If you want to bid on them...

http://mma4real.net/2008/11/24/nc-mma-ufc-fight-for-the-troops/

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