From kloMcKinsey to the panel.
J.
>You have a different understanding of the concept of perfection.
RevG
No, we have a perfect understanding of perfection. PERFECTION means something without error or fault. A biblegod who creates imperfect beings and then curses them for their imperfections is by definition: imperfect.
Bertrand Russell said something along these lines. If our car doesn't work right, we don't get out and curse it, we fix it.
J
>God can do whatever he wishes, as long as it is in >accordance to his Will.
RevG
What an utterly inane sentence. One must will what one does. Also, such a concept is a limitation on the idea of God, as such, a being with a limitation cannot be omnipotent.
J
>It may appear he is acting out of character, which is Love,
RevG
LOL. If I can forgive without killing my son over it [assuming for the sake of argument I had one], then how can this 'father' be love if he can't do as much?
Also, as Nietzsche pointed out, if God is Love, the God is a abstraction existing only in the human mind. Love is such an abstraction that it cannot even be defined in any meaningful terms.
J
> but He has.......our best interests at heart.
RevG
LOL. Here is a biblequote which shows otherwise.
Eze. 14: 9, "9 If a prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel."
How is it in the best interest of a man, to be deceived by a God and then destroyed for it. This is as stupid and inane as the story of how biblegod ordered David to carry out a
census, only to flip out over it and kill 70,000 people because David obeyed him.
You obviously don't understand the words: love, perfection, etc. You seem to be totally devoid of moral thoughts. You sound more and more like a Nazi defending Hitler.
J
> He is willing to let us fall, hurt die,suffer
>etc...for reasons we dont understand..for now, but it will be like I said .......in our best interests.
RevG
Why should anyone believe you? You are assuming this pixie of yours exists, you are also ASS-U-MING that you know the mind of the pixie.
J
> I just saw a good movie ..The Count of Monti
>Carlo, Edmond, the main character is imprisoned falsely for >crimes he didnt commit.......13 years in a terrible >prison....but while there, he learns many things...one is >the love and caring and compasion of another prisoner...He >learned much in the depths of despair...I dont know about >you guys..but I think we creatures are learning much also >on this small out of the way, planet we call home....I am not trying to change your minds...only introduce other concepts.
RevG
Tell us J. What does a child learn when it dies at two from starvation? You should read Bertrand Russell's "Why I am not a christian"; he demonstrates that moral arguments for God are actually moral arguments AGAINST God. As a Deist, I believe in God [not yours though], but don't attempt to argue the concept from a moral point of view. It is self-defeating.
J.
> In fact I really believe that enlightenment comes
>to us all in different ways and at different times. I >surely have much more to learn. (In kindness) J.
RevG
I agree. Critical thinking should be first. Also what you believe isn't evidence; for if you believed in the Easter Bunny, would that make the Easter Bunny real? Here is a quote from a Deist about God you might consider.
"But the Christian story of God the Father putting His own son to death, or employing people to do it (for that is the plain language of the story) cannot be told by a parent to a
child; and to tell him that it was done to make mankind happier and better is making the story still worse -- as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it." -- Thomas Paine
Get over it J. The Bible was written by men who enriched themselves on the gullibility of the ignorant and superstitious. It is exactly like all other 'holy' books, priestcraft at work. The Christian myth is a blasphemy to the Deist; it makes the idea of god replusive and disgusting.
peace
Rev Gadfly
--
II Cor. 12:16, "Nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by DECEIT."
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Re: JAMIC -- Paul Angle, 05:15:51 02/16/02 Sat
Go a little easy on Joyce here guys she is trying very hard to come out from under the Bible cloud, she still has a lot of imprinted notions of 'God' but that is understandable. What believer can or will acknowledge the Bible God is vicious and cruel rather than loving? I once did a scan for the word love in the Bible, I think God said he loved Jacob, and that's all I could find. Many spoke of loving and fearing God but God never spoke much of it, or at least those claiming he spoke certain words (which is more than a little weird when you think about it, could anyone remotely get away with that today??). I think Krishnamurti said it best, 'There can be no truth where there is fear." and "Where there is belief, there is no intelligence."
PA
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Re: JAMIC -- Rev Gadfly, 09:46:51 02/16/02 Sat
RevG
Thank you Paul, I was being too hard on Joyce and needed to be told so.
peace
Rev Gadfly
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Re: JAMIC -- Paul Angle, 04:34:52 02/19/02 Tue
Thanks Rev. Joyce is coming around, she's actually quite nice. I've been writing her in private on various things. She's still feeling the effects of the mind numbing notions of Christianity. I think her intelligence will bring her out of it and has already caused her to doubt much of the Bible.
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Re: JAMIC -- Paul Angle, 00:39:57 08/06/02 Tue
I think I need Jesus!
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