The Ultimate Contradiction: "...there is no savior but Me" -Hosea 13:4 -- McKinsey's Biblical Errancy Forum Group

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Date Posted: 09:49:43 03/05/02 Tue
Author: Paul Angle
Subject: The Ultimate Contradiction: "...there is no savior but Me" -Hosea 13:4

The Jewish Torah Perspective verses The Christian Claims, the Ultimate Contradiction!!

Amongst the numerous contradictions in the Bible I find this one to be most perplexing: how do Christian's get the idea Jesus is divine and either is God or as God?

The Torah pronounces the absolute singularity of God:

"Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord, he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; THERE IS NO OTHER." -Deuteronomy 4:39

"See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me." -Deuteronomy..32:39

"And I am the Lord your God from the land of Egypt, and gods beside Me you should not know, and there is no savior but Me" (Hosea 13:4).

"I am He, before Me no god was created, neither shall there be after Me." Isaiah 43:10

"Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts, I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me THERE IS NO GOD." -Isaiah 44:6

"I am the Lord, and THERE IS NONE ELSE." -Isaiah 45:18

"Hear Israel, YHWH is our God, YHWH IS ONE." -Hebrew Deuteronomy 6:4
_______________________________________________________
The problem of the Trinity and Jesus' Divinity:

The New Testament also makes statements God is one.
Jesus himself speaks: "Hear Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord". He is answered, "There is one God, and there is no other than He", Jesus replies: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." -Mark 12:29-34

Paul's texts:
"Seeing it is one God, ..." -Romans 3:30

"We know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no other God than one." -1 Corinthians 8:4

"But to us there is but one God..." - 1 Corinthians 8:6

"One God and father of all,..." -Ephesians 4:6

"For there is one God..." -1 Timothy 2:5

And James:
"You believe that there is one God, and you do well." -James 2:19

So in the above we get the idea that the NT seems to say God is one and there is but one God, not a son and certainly not a Ghost. The Trinity is contrived concept not supported in the OT or even in the NT.

So on with the Divinity of Jesus and already we can see there is no one else but God, BUT the contradictions start...

Thomas says to Jesus; "My Lord and my god." -John 20:28

Jesus says; "I and my father are one." -John 10:30

Then Jesus states, "..call No MAN your father upon the earth, for ONE is your FATHER, which is in heaven." -Matthew 23:9

Jesus then agrees with the OT again, "Thou shall have no other gods before Me", "Thou shall not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God." -Exodus 20:3&5.
And Jesus completely agrees with this, in Matthew 4:10: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt you serve." also the same statement in Luke 4:8.

Jesus turns around again and states, "That all men should honour the son, even as they honour the Father." -John 5:23

Again Jesus contradicts what he said previously and the Torah, "If any man serve me, let him follow me, ..if any man serve me, him will my father honour." -John 12:26.

Now something is very wrong here because the Jewish TORAH and the NT at first claim there is only one God then the NT turns around and lies????

Again the TORAH and the Prophets:
"The Lord, (YHWH) He is God, and there is none else beside Him." -Deuteronomy 4:35

"See now that I, even I am He, and there is no God with me. I kill and make alive, I wound and I heal, neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." -Deuteronomy 32:39.

"O Lord, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee." -1 Chronicles 17:20

"Thou, even Thou, art Lord alone." -Nehemia 9:6

"Thou are God alone." Psalm 86:10

"I am the Lord and there is none else, there is no God beside me: That they may know from the rising of the sun and from the west that there is no God beside Me. I am the Lord, and THERE IS NONE ELSE." -Isaiah 45:5-6

"And I am the Lord your God from the land of Egypt, and gods beside Me you should not know, and there is no savior but Me." -Hosea 13:4

The Bible, the oddest of all books, is it any wonder believers think they possess a magic decoder ring to decifer its magic codes and information. Seems to be rather clear to me, the NT contradicts the OT or Jewish texts completely. And for one thing, who in the hell is Paul?? He made this all up, we find he never knew Jesus, and wasn't taught by Jesus or by any man, to top it off he admits to lying and deception, but he had visions.....now I'm supposed to think this guys not coo coo for cocoa puffs??

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[> Re: The Ultimate Contradiction: "...there is no savior but Me" -Hosea 13:4 -- Rev Gadfly, 10:30:45 04/01/02 Mon

Paul:
"The Bible, the oddest of all books, is it any wonder believers think they possess a magic decoder ring to decifer its magic codes and information. Seems to be rather clear to me, the NT contradicts the OT or Jewish texts completely."

RevG

That is correct, and I might add that the NT even fails to corrobrate itself; it is full of internal contradictions which no amount of translation can undo. For example, the gospels cannot agree on a number of key fundamental issues in christianity, the last words of Jesus to his apostles. This is not some minor item, but a very important one. How can divinely inspired men fail to corrobrate an event they supposedly were present at?

Historically speaking, Paul was the first NT writer, and in his main letters [excluding the pastorials which are recognized by mainstream scholars as being penned by others], he totally ignores the historical Jesus. There is no virgin birth in Paul, no flight to Egypt, no miracles, no major teachings of Jesus. Paul's Jesus is a theological construct, not a historical person.

A dead giveaway that Matthew was written long after is that in Paul, we are told that we don't know how to pray; this is a funny statement, for didn't he hear about the Sermon of the Mount and the "Lord's Prayer"?

A dead giveaway that Luke was written long after the fact is that its first four verses openly state that a new gospel is being written to put the record straight. Consider the wording: "Inasmuch as MANY have undertaken to COMPILE an account ...." Who is he talking about? The traditional Christian view is that Luke was written around the same time as the other three, and all the false gospels came much later; so are we to believe that this 'Luke' is taking exception with the other three gospels and trying to set the record straight in what he calls "an exact truth". If Luke's gospel is an 'exact truth' than one must accept that the other three are partial truths at best, falsehoods at worst -- for how can an exact truth be anything but supremely accurate! Yet Luke disagrees with the other gospels in choice of wording for the few events which are common, and disagree greatly on any item not in Mark. For example, the nativity accounts in Matthew and Luke are in complete disagreement on all but three items: 1) a baby named Jesus, a town named Bethlehem, and 3) a mother named Mary -- they fail to corrobrate beyond that.

In addition, the authorship of the gospels are unknown. The authors fail to identify themselves, for to do so would have meant to discredit their works.

"As the opportunities of forgeries were greater, so also was the inducement. A man could gain no advantage by writing under the name of Homer or euclid; if he could write equal to them, it would be better he wrote under his own name; if inferior, he could not succeed. Pride would prevent the former, and impossibility the latter. But with respect to such books as compose the New Testament, all the inducements were on the side of the forgery. The best imagined history that could have been made, at the distance of two or three hundred years after the time, could not have passed for an original under the name of the real writer; the only chance of success lay in forgery, for the church wanted pretense for its new doctrine, and truth and talents were out of the
question." -- Thomas Paine

The NT is fiction, and Christians deep down know it. But like children, they become furious if any of their deeply held fairy tales are challenged.

Faith is the vilest form of intellectual corruption.

peace

Rev Gadfly

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[> [> Re: A great post Rev, you will be missed (n/m) -- Paul A., 02:41:44 04/03/02 Wed

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