Response to Koop (from Alan) by Rook -- McKinsey's Biblical Errancy Forum Group

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Date Posted: 02:55:01 03/21/02 Thu
Author: Paul for Rook
Subject: Response to Koop (from Alan) by Rook

Koops wrote: From what I've read of your contradictions, I find it difficult to determine what kind of literature you believe the Bible to contain. The Bible is after all literature written by many different authors over thousands of years.

Rook: Which is a very good reason to give it much doubt. I'm glad you brought that up so we can see how badly it needs to be validified.

Koops: And it is composed of many different types of literature: history, prose, poetry, letters, prophecy, and apocalyptic just to name a few.

Rook: This looks like a good place to correct your errors. The history the bible tells isn't very accurate. Actually, it's downright incorrect. Dates, kings and regions are jumbled up, and usually incorrect. Placing a King and a correct geographical region with the right date is something that only happens maybe twice within the entire Bible. The prophecies in the Bible are about as answered as me wishing to Joe Pesci that my neighbors Dog will stop barking. Although I can rely more on Pesci because he's real and he owns a bat. As for what the Bible really is, is something you should make up your mind about. If it's all those types of literature, how can YOU decide which is which? For all you know jesus' story could be all poetry. After all, no proof exists that Jesus ever lived. And because you don't know, you can't claim the Bible as proof of anything. Little less accept it as valid.

Koops: Each of these types of literature function in different ways. And the interpretation of the passage depends on the type of literature it is as well as the context of the verse.

Rook: Come now, my friend. You know very well that Context, as you claim it, doesn't exist. The only context that exists is actually what is written. Why even bother having a Bible is all you need to do is fix the words around to fit your needs? Hell, I could make the Bible say whatever I want it too say if all I have to do is make up a new context other then what is written. And indeed that is what you're saying to do. And hence the reason we have over thousands of sects of Christianity running around all claiming different meanings to the Bible. Unless you can show me ONE verse, just one, where it says to just read between the lines and not what is written exactly, then you have no reason to be doing so.

Koop: So for instance in Mark 12:26-27 you have failed to read the context and understand what is at stake here in this passage. In fact the contradiction you point out makes Jesus' point. Jesus in this passage has been questioned by the Sadducees about the resurrection because they do not believe in the resurrection from the dead. To answer them, Jesus points to the book of Moses quoting Exodus 3:6 where God states that he is the God of Abraham, etc. So in Exodus 3:6, God is refering to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as LIVING, thus demonstrating that the books of Moses teach the resurrection of the dead. Jesus sums up his argument by saying verse 27: "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living." So yes, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not living, as you and I know it, in this world, but that is precisely the point Jesus is making. They have been resurrected from the dead and God refers to them as living long after they have "died" physically.

Rook: Since you so conveintly have forgotton to put down the verse, I'll put it down for us all to read. Mark 12:26-27; "As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, 'I am the God of Isaac, and (the) God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. You are greatly misled."

Now, if you're going to dig into context...I'm going to dig into real traditions and not make things up. Jesus, if anything, is refering to the Hebrew belief that there is NO afterlife. In the entire OT...I don't recall one verse where the dead goes to an afterlife. If anything, part of Adam and Eve's punishment is death. Not life after death. Well, of course, Genesis was stolen from The Epic of Gilgemesh anyway, but still. And Jesus CLEARLY states that YHWH is only the God for the living. So there must be another God for the dead..or NO god for the dead. But also...since the Hebrews didn't believe in an afterlife (i.e. Heaven/Hell) they couldn't be "Of the living" as you claim it because obviously they didn't believe in that. And let's not forget, that regardless of their "soul," They're still dead. So they aren't among the living anyway.

Stop pretending and grow up. The Bible is false. As George Carlin said, "Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you!"

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[> Re: Response to Koop (from Alan) by Rook -- Rook Hawkins, 12:20:23 03/21/02 Thu

And might I add, that incidentally, Koops claims that Moses is teaching resurrection, when in reality, God is simply trying to verify which God he is. God doesn't claim he is the God of the Living anywhere in Exodus. Nice try Koops, but you have again placed your own words into the Bible and in effect taken Exodus 3:6 out of context.

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