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Date Posted: 20:41:58 06/13/00 Tue
Author: Arista
Subject: Re: References & Definitions
In reply to: Peter 's message, "Re: References & Definitions" on 18:09:52 06/13/00 Tue

> When I look at the picture a line from the ball to the
> clubhead is not parallel to the line formed by the
> club face. If you draw a line from the clubface to
> the ball and call that the plane. then of course the
> clubface lies on it. That says nothing about their
> relative orientations

Draw a line from the hosel to the ball and the clubface is parallel to that line. It says a lot about their relative orientations.

> > It is not what I mean.
> I was quoting DavidL from the previous post. Not you
> unless you are also DavidL

DavidL is a Golfing Machine instructor who I e-mailed and asked to visit the board for his opinions about some of the claims being posted. I recieved a reply from him last night saying he made some post and he has no further interest in the board.

> > From hip high to hip high the
> > clubface is on a right angle with the plane,
> > past hip high it rotates to on the plane.
> The
> > clubface has to be on a right angle with the plane
> > through impact to hit the ball straight, other wise
> > you'd hit it right all day.
> That must be an amazing rate of rotation to
> rotate through over 90 degrees along the axis of the
> shaft from the position shown in the picture (slightly
> above hip high) to fully perpendicular to the plane
> line at hip height. The videos I have do not show
> this.

We were discussing what the pictures of Moe show weren't we? In the convenional swing the clubface positions are not the same as Moe's. At hip high the clubface does not immediately rotate to on plane. I said past hip high it rotates TO on plane. This on plane position is at the top of the swing.

> > You've been incompetently using Golfing Machine
> > terminology this whole board.
> I think you mean this whole "thread". You introduced
> TGM not I. I used a term and defined it.

And you defined it incorrectly according to physics.

> Just
> because that term exists in TGM does not mean that was
> my source.

Than what was your source since GM is the only golf concept that uses the terms you have?

> Personally I find TGM language often
> non-intuitive and I am more interested here in
> effective communication than in adhering to a
> particular dogma.

Than why didn't you use other terms?

> A plane here is a two dimensional object in a 3
> dimensional space. The line formed by the
> plane when viewed from the back looking down the
> target line is not the target line. it is a
> line sloped from the ball to, in Hogan's case, the
> shoulder.

That's not the plane line, it's the plane ANGLE.

> This is the perspective being used when
> people talk about being under or over the plane. This
> is also the perspective when Moe talks about his
> downswing being 'flatter' than his upswing.

They're talking about the plane angle, not the plane line.

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