Lona, clear something up for me -- Final End

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Date Posted: 23:14:29 05/31/02 Fri
Author: Drummond
Subject: Lona, clear something up for me

Comments from a "Satanist" on another forum:

"Uh, no. Wicca is not a direct survival of ancient European paganism. Wicca is a MODERN religion which has drawn inspiration from many sources, both ancient and modern. Wicca and Satanism have some common ancestors and, historically, have both influenced each other to some extent. Satanism is not a copy of Wicca."

then a "witch" responded:

"thank you!!!!!!!!!

many people tend to think that wicca IS the same thing as paganism and witchcraft. as someone who is a witch but NOT a wiccan, that gets a bit frustrating at times. wiccans may be pagans and witches...but not all pagans or witches are wiccan (and not all pagans are witches, etc). but i'm getting off-topic, so i'll shut up now"

Do you consider yourself a witch? Satanist? Is there any relationship between them?

The comments were in response to a post of mine:

"I read Lavay's "Satanic Bible" back in the 80s, and I thought he was a nutcase and still do. Apparently, he abused his wife, who took him to the cleaners in the divorce. He lived in the Pacific Heights near a friend of mine, and I actually saw him in one of my favorite restaraunts one time.

Maybe it's all irony, but if so the Satanists sure spend a lot of energy giving power to the very basic notions of fundamentalist Christianity. If you don't believe in the Bible God, why would you believe in the Bible Devil? If Satanism is simply an effort to shock and provoke, it's old news and passe. If you really believe in Satan, why don't you believe in God?

The real irony is that satanists' opposition to Christian fundamentalism is being defined by fundamentalist Christianity. They are adopting the symbols in their opposite, and giving power to the Christian symbols. Are satanists so uncreative that they have to adopt the symbols defined by the ideology they reject?

Ironically, the satan image itself was an attack on the horned god or "wild man" of European paganism, converting their male god to the Christian devil, and completely rejecting the goddess in any form, except maybe the Catholic appropriation thereof through Marian worship.

For these reasons, most Wiccans have nothing to do with Satan worship.

When I was a kid, I was really into the Monkeys. Remember David Jones the British heartthrob now trolling for Time/Life music discs in infomercials? I was so conditioned by watching them, that when I finally saw the Yellow Submarine, I thought "these lamoid Beattles are a cheap copy of the Monkeys," translated from kid talk. In many respects, Satanism appears to be to Wicca what the Monkeys are to The Beatles.

And I don't even feel compelled to practice Wicca."

Incidently, the remainder of the "Satanist's" reponse was:

"Opposition to fundamentalism isn't the only or main point, at least not for me. For me, the main point is what kinds of "spiritual" experiences I have, and what triggers them.

In my own case, I was an active neo-Pagan for over four years BEFORE I began identifying as a Satanist. What led me to begin identifying as a Satanist was my own overwhelming -- and utterly unexpected -- inner response to a brief invocation to Satan that I ran into in an online forum. I'll talk more about this and subsequent experiences in some future post.

For now, I'll just say that I was startled and confused. I was well aware of -- and strongly believed -- the usual neo-Pagan arguments against Satanism. So, here I was, having profound "spiritual" experiences that were quite at variance with my conscious beliefs.

Mystics throughout the ages have compared spiritual experience to sex. Taking that metaphor further, I've coined the term "spiritual orientation," analogous to "sexual orientation." Just as different people are naturally drawn to different genders, so too different people are naturally drawn to different kinds of deities.

My Satanism was actually LESS motivated by rebellion against Christianity than my neo-Paganism had been. It was motivated, primarily, by the recognition and acceptance of my own spiritual orientation."

You can view the whole thread at:

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=319472&startcat=1&start=1&CategoryID=22217&ThreadID=187856

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Replies:

I am a Shaman -- Lona, 15:16:33 06/01/02 Sat
- Is there a strict difference between a "witch" and a "shaman?" -- Drummond, 19:23:38 06/01/02 Sat
  - Shaman is the most common term. -- Lona, 02:35:01 06/02/02 Sun
    - A warrior? -- Drummond, 17:02:48 06/02/02 Sun
      - Literaly. -- Lona, 23:48:36 06/02/02 Sun
        Lona -- Drummond, 00:07:18 06/03/02 Mon
    - What do you think of this article? -- Drummond, 19:34:50 06/02/02 Sun
- Came across an interesting site -- Drummond, 00:33:37 06/02/02 Sun
  - I know it by heart. :) (NT) -- Lona, 02:35:25 06/02/02 Sun
    - Re: I know it by heart. :) -- sue da babe, 10:47:23 06/02/02 Sun