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Date Posted: 08:23:30 05/20/99 Thu
Author: Daniel
Subject: Re: to Richard

> Your idea that God does not exist outside of our time
> dimension is problematical, both scientifically, and
> biblically. Scientifically, Stephen Hawking, George
> Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for
> general relativity to include space and time (1). Not
> only space, but also time has a beginning - at the
> moment of creation. God, who created the universe must
> have existed outside of our dimension of time in order
> to have created the universe (Genesis 1:1).
>

I believe that space/time relativism does not impact God, yet I believe that there is something called "absolute time", or better said "God's Time".

If you have read Russ Humphries work then you can see that there is a potential for such phenomenom. I believe that biblically terms such as "...before the world..." are meaningless unless there was "before" the world.

> Contrary to what you say, the Bible does teach that
> God exists beyond our dimension of time:
>
> 1. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the
> beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)

Look at each of the terms that "beginning of time" is derived:

5550 chronos (khron'-os);

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from 2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from 165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:

KJV-- + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.

166 aionios (ahee-o'-nee-os);

from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):

KJV-- eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

As you can see from the definitions above and if you read multiple translations of this text, the more frequent use is "before the world began". Although I am not a greek scholar, I am certain that either translation is acceptable.

So if we accept both translations: then it is possible that the meaning could be "...before the time of this world began..."

Regardless, "before time" is a logical fallacy if time dies not exist before time was created.



> 2. The hope of eternal life, which God... promised
> before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)

Read above. same condition applies.

> 3. To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ
> our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority,
> before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
>
The above translation is a fabrication. Read the greek. "before all time" does not exist in this pasage. What translation are you using?

Jude 1:25
25 To God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.
(NKJ)


> In addition, there is a logic problem if God exists
> only within our dimension of time. All things within a
> single dimension of time (actually only half a
> dimension, since time can only go in one direction)
> (2), are subject to the law of cause and effect.
> Therefore, God cannot be uncaused if He exists only
> within our time dimension. Therefore, the atheist
> objection to the existence of God in asking "who
> created God" would be a valid one. I think you should
> take some time and really think this through. Your God
> is too small!
>

I never said he only lives within our time dimension.

What I have said is that you cannot interpret the bible using your hermeutic to describe, failed prophecy, man's free will, the power of prayer, the fact the God changes, that he repents...etc. The interpretation I am putting forth is consistent and reveals a God that is incredibly powerful, because in spite of man's disobedience God ultimately is passionate, graceful and still able to fulfill his will. Can't you see that a God in time is far greater than one out side of time. Your God peeks into the future, my God makes the future. Big difference!

My God is!

Daniel

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