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Date Posted: 20:30:39 05/26/99 Wed
Author: daniel
Subject: There is TIME in Heaven - Richard

> > I believe that space/time relativism does not impact
> > God, yet I believe that there is something called
> > "absolute time", or better said "God's Time".
>
> Is "absolute time" a biblical concept? What does it
> mean and how does it intersect with the time dimension
> of the universe? It sounds like you are trying to
> redefine a second dimension of time.
>

You dimensia has caused you to miss very basic truths.

I watched the Avalanche lose to Dallas tonight. There were three periods of play with the AVs coming up short. There was "game" time being tracked, but was there a time before "game" time? All the people including the players lived within two time records. Absolute time and game time. There was one constant between the two. NOW.

> > If you have read Russ Humphries work then you can see
> > that there is a potential for such phenomenom.
>
> Humphries physics is bad. If you want the technical
> analysis of his errors, contact Reasons To Believe and
> they will send you a detailed paper containing all the
> equations refuting his ideas.
>

I am sure that Russ can't defend himself out of a brown paper bag either. I heard that he got his diploma out of a cracker jack box. Shhhh. Don't tell anyone.

He wrote a very detailed repsponse in the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal about the critiques.

> Okay, let's do Greek!
> > > 1. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before
> the
> > > beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
> Here are my Greek lexicon's definitions:
>
> G5550. chronos, a prim. word; time:-- age(1), all(1),
> delay(1), for a while(5), long(5), long*(1), long
> ages(2), period(2), time(30), times(5).
>
> G166. aiwnios, from G165; agelong, eternal:--
> eternal(67), eternity(1), forever(1).
>
> Chronos has nothing to do with worlds, but only time,
> or ages. It is not before the world, but before time.
>
> > So if we accept both translations: then it is
> possible
> > that the meaning could be "...before the time of this
> > world began..."
>
> If it is "before the time of this world began," then
> it must be a different dimension of time.
>

No. It doesn't have to be a different dimension. Just a different game.

> > > 2. The hope of eternal life, which God... promised
> > > before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
>
> > Read above. same condition applies.
>
> Titus 1:2 Greek:
> chronos:G5550 chronos:G5550 pro:G4253
>
> G4253. pro, a prim. prep.; before:-- above(2),
> ago(4), ahead*(2), before(33), in front of(2), just
> outside(m)(1), prior to(1), right at(m)(1)
>
> A good translation might be "before [pro:G4253] the
> time [chronos:G5550] of this age [chronos:G5550]",
> i.e., before our dimension of time existed.
>

Wrong. Dimension is not necessary. "Before the time of the creation of this world" would be the most accurate translation. In the study of redaction criticism it becomes very obvious that the writer of Genesis had no concept of multi-dimensional space, the theory of relativity or quantum physics.

> > > 3. To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ
> > > our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and
> authority,
> > > before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude
> > 1:25)
> > >
> > The above translation is a fabrication. Read the
> > greek. "before all time" does not exist in this
> > pasage. What translation are you using?
>
> to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power
> and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before
> all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. (Jude 1:25) NIV
>
> to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our
> Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority,
> before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude
> 1:25) NASB
>
> KJV/NKJV do not use the best manuscript evidence, but
> took the texts used to make the Latin Vulgate. I
> suggest sticking with NASB.
>
> Here is the Greek:
>
> pro:G4253 pas:G3956 aiwn:G165
>
> pro:G4253 before - see above
>
> G3956. pas, a prim. word; all, every:-- all(735),
> all*(1), all kinds(1), all men(21), all respects(3),
> all things(133), always*(3), any(17), anyone(3),
> anything*(1), anything(3), constantly*(1),
> continually*(6), entire(4), every(129), every form(1),
> every kind(9), every man(2), every respect(1), every
> way(2), everyone(63), everyone*(1), everyone's(1),
> everything(43), forever*(1), full(2), great(2),
> however*(1), no*(11), no one*(5), nothing*(m)(1),
> nothing(1), perfectly(m)(1), quite(1), whatever(2),
> whatever*(2), whoever(7), whole(17).
>
> G165. aiwn, from a prim. root appar. mean. continued
> duration; a space of time, an age:-- age(20), ages(6),
> ancient time(1), beginning of time(m)(1),
> course(m)(1), eternal(2), eternity(1), ever*(2),
> forever(27), forever and ever(20), forevermore(2),
> never*(8), old(2), time(1).
>
> "before all time" is the most literal translation of
> those 3 Greek words. Can it get any clearer?
>

You are mis-reading the greek. The term aioonos is used twice in the verse, which is represented as "ever" for both NOW and forever. The actual term that you may want is "Chronos" which is not in the text, the NIV even states above as you quoted "AGE". Not "time".

>
> > What I have said is that you cannot interpret the
> > bible using your hermeutic to describe, failed
> > prophecy, man's free will, the power of prayer, the
> > fact the God changes, that he repents...etc. The
> > interpretation I am putting forth is consistent and
> > reveals a God that is incredibly powerful, because in
> > spite of man's disobedience God ultimately is
> > passionate, graceful and still able to fulfill his
> > will. Can't you see that a God in time is far
> greater
> > than one out side of time. Your God peeks into the
> > future, my God makes the future. Big difference!
>
> God must be BOTH within time (our time) and outside
> time (another dimension of time) simultaneously. If He
> is not in time, then He can have no interactions with
> us (deist position). If he is not outside of our time,
> then He cannot see or control what will happen in the
> future. God not only foreknows and predestines, but
> allows free-will of humans simultaneously. How can
> that be possible in only a single dimension of time?

God does not have to see the future or know the future in order to control it. Don't be so foolish. Did you set your clock to wake you tomorrow? Did you purchase food for your fridge. Ohhh I see into the future...you will have grapefruit in the morning....ahhh....You will receive a financial reward for your hard work sometime in this month...
See I am a prophet.

BTW, did God predestine that I would write this post to you to invalidate the proposition that God predestined that I would write this post to invalidate the proposition that God predestined it to be invalidated?

God's elections are not individual, but corporate. As a matter of fact may be you can help interpret this passage:

Rom 11:20-21
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
(NKJ)

Pay strict attention to vs 21. What does the term..."He may not spare you either" mean?

Another thought:

Don't forget that the game goes on...even in heaven
Rev 8:1
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
(NKJ)

Did you know that there will be time in heaven? I wonder if that is + or - GMT.
More evidence that even living in a different "time" zone, there is "NOW" there too.

Daniel
GODISNOWHERE

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