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Subject: Murray- In answer to your questions... Author: JulPisacane [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 19:01:04 08/18/09 Tue In reply to: Murray 's message, "let's see if this helps us understand things better" on 14:21:54 08/18/09 Tue M-- 1.) Other people previously posted some of the same Scriptures Murray did. -- It was your posting of that specific verse as a response to Hillbilly's bringing up God's judgment on Sodom of Gomorrah and then your continued comments after that Scripture where you wrote : " Otherwise, wouldn't the cross be a partial sacrifice? A sacrifice for some sins but not for others? My God does not do things half way! " _____________________________________________________ M 2.) Those people believed in universal salvation/pardon. --- Those people were wanting us to believe in the doctrines of Universal pardon was the problem as stated above . They were false teachings which we will not follow ,accept -or be an audience to . M 3.) Therefore, Murray also believes likewise? You will make known to others what it is you believe or not and it seems you are unable to do so here or just don't want to -- and it looks like Dori has made the call that this may not be the place for you . This is her forum and we respect and trust her discernment. Most of us here need a friendly ,resting spot ...some more than others . To God be all the glory , Julie [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Julie Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:59:14 08/19/09 Wed I believe we are in New Covenant that is a signficant and dramatic departure from the Old. I believe the church has been given the ministry of reconciliation. As it says in the Scriptures, "that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians 5:19) I also believe that, "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27) If someone does not accept that their sins were imputed to Jesus during their life on earth, their sins will be imputed to them at the judgment which occurs after they die and they will suffer eternal punishment in a literal hell. This is at great variance with those who believe in "universal pardon." I believe the weight of Scripture is that the church cannot both proclaim non-imputation of sins (ministry of reconciliation) and also have a role in proclaiming judgment from God of any sort to befall people while they are living on this earth. First, this would be judgment before death which is contrary to the teaching that first comes death and then judgment. Second, this invites the question, "Is God currently imputing sin/sins to people or is He not?" Obviously, it can't be both. Last edited by author: Wed August 19, 2009 16:12:14   Edited 2 times.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Thanks for your response, Murray Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:51:24 08/19/09 Wed I think some of the misperception we had at the beginning of this discussion was because of the seeming judgment upon individual Americans, not the whole population, when some say America is in for a big correction by God for lapsing deeper and deeper into sin. To say that isn't to judge the sinners--it is saying that the country itself is at fault. We as a society have let the morals decay by not continuing to speak out against sin for fear of being called fanatics and right-wing wackos. It isn't a judgment on the individual, but on the population as a whole. And I think that is what Hillbilly and Julie were addressing. Thank you for better stating your position. I hope it clears things up for all concerned.