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Subject: It sounds to me as if Author: dori [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 01:02:03 05/05/14 Mon In reply to: Caren 's message, "Reply" on 21:22:45 05/04/14 Sun .....both of you are a lot harder on yourselves than God was. If God has forgiven you, then how can you argue with that? God bless you. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: I agree Dori Author: Caren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:10:18 05/05/14 Mon ... and I'm working on it.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Good! Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:07:13 05/05/14 Mon God loves you, and I do, too. 8-)

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: God loves us all Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:40:30 05/06/14 Tue and we being in Him and having of His Spirit are to love as he loves. Jesus gives us that power. I love both of you and all I know. Ya'll have a good day and Happy Mother's day Sunday to all you mom's out there.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Thanks, Hillbilly Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:02:59 05/08/14 Thu I wish the same for all our friends--and for Dale, too! I'm in Seattle, celebrating Mother's Day with my daughter, SIL and Ada. Charlie, too. *-) I'll be back home Tuesday night, but will check in again if there's time. Have a nice weekend!

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The Cross is the basis of forgiveness Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:03:17 05/09/14 Fri Author: Murray Expression: Post Icon: Subject: The Cross is the basis of forgiveness One of the keys to truly experiencing forgiveness is to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us that, through the Cross, we are dead to sin. One of the best verses on that subject is Romans 6:11 which commands us to reckon ourselves dead unto sin, but alive unto God through Christ Jesus our Lord. Galatians 2:20 is even stronger. It says that not only are we dead to sin, but that we have been crucified with Christ. What happened at the Cross was monumental and extremely powerful. Sin wasn't so much forgiven as we normally think of forgiveness, but it was taken away. Thus, our problem forgiving ourselves is that we are not believing that the sin was placed upon Jesus and that it was taken away through his sacrificial death, that our sin literally died with Jesus. Our sin was placed on Him and his innocence and righteousness was imputed to us. He was as an innocent as a lamb and now we are through the Cross. The sin of the whole world was all placed on Jesus and then Jesus paid its wages, which is death. That is why it says that we are convinced that if one died, all are dead (2 Corinthians 5:14) The problems we have in dealing with sin are when we are not convinced of that. We must allow ourselves to be taught by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures that clearly teach us this. Last edited by author: Fri May 09, 2014 05:25:06   Edited 5 times.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Self Forgiveness Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:45:29 05/09/14 Fri Murray, First let me say, welcome to this board it is good to see your post. I totally agree on your post as to forgiveness of sin. All my sins are forgiven by God and it is on the basis of the finished work on the cross and the resurrection which completed God's master plan. I have never believed otherwise but to understand where I am coming as to self forgiveness we must understand while we are perfect in the inward man the outward man is still filthy and sin remains in the flesh (Rom. 7:15-24). The spiritual warfare we face daily is the warfare of the perfected soul warring against the flesh that would fight against God. When the inward man fails to control the flesh it is because we refuse to let the Spirit of God that dwells in the soul of man (not in the flesh) control the flesh. God has given us choice in all matters pertaining to this "relationship" between the inner man and the outward man. It is in our choices that we sin. It is in our choices that we either repent or remain obstinate. When I speak of not forgiving my self I speak of keeping my past choices "ever before me" (as David in Ps. 51:3) as a reminder of my weakness. I would assume Peter never forgave himself for denying the Lord those 3 times. I think he shuddered and dropped his head each time it flashed in his memory. I do not want to put the bad choices I made out of my mind. I want them to constantly remind me of my blatant disregard for God's will for my life and the transgressions that result. The reason for chastisement (Heb. 12:4-11) is to bring fresh again to remembrance what we did and that there are consequences for sin. Let us never forget that sin after salvation is a choice and even though there is forgiveness for the asking the sin will have it's consequences. What we do after salvation will meet us at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Rom. 14:10, 12, 2 Cor. 5:9-10, 1Cor. 3:11-15) (of course this is not the White Throne Judgment). So, in summing I would say first, I do not want to forgive myself but thank God for His forgiveness. Second, I am not sure I could forgive myself if I wanted to. Again, thanks for posting. Dwight Rhodes (Hillbilly)

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Question Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:14:45 05/09/14 Fri Doesn't keeping your bad choice before you have the effect of keeping that sin alive, at least in your own mind? How do you reconcile that with the command to reckon yourself dead to sin at Romans 6:11?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: That is the point Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:41:42 05/09/14 Fri It is ever before me in my memory which ever reminds me that if I did it once I could fail again. It strengthens my guard and resolve to depend on God even more intensely. I have learned to lean on my Saviour and not self through all this. Whether anyone agrees or not I am far more comfortable this way.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Reply Author: Caren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:28:36 05/12/14 Mon It is one thing for that to be comfortable for you Hillbilly but it is another thing to tell that friend of yours that he will never be able to forgive himself. I do not think that was good counsel.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Caren Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:40:12 05/12/14 Mon Let me give you a little more background. This friend was my pastor a few years ago. He also was a school teacher. His sin was with an under age boy. His wife, young teen daughter and rest of his family are devastated. He has hit bottom and yes I believe God has forgiven him. His family has forgiven him. I have forgiven him as well as the Church. He agreed with me that he would never be able to forgive himself. He will pay his debt to society as the law demands the punishment. I am glad our Saviour is full of grace and mercy and not only forgives but gives us the capacity to forgive. Now do you think he will ever be able to forgive himself? Could you forgive yourself?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Reply Author: Caren [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:29:19 05/13/14 Tue I agree he has hit bottom and no I could not forgive Myself but I pray he can forgive himself. It is a terrible thing to live with guilt and not be able to forgive yourself and God does not grade sins so why should we? Gossip in His eyes is as deep a sin as murder yet we forgive ourselves for gossip all the time.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Question Author: Dave [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:26:26 05/13/14 Tue A question from a stranger (but I know Caren from another website): How does it help that person to condemn himself after everyone else, including the Church, has forgiven him? Scripture says that God desires his SALVATION, not his condemnation. He might FEEL like garbage, but Jesus Christ died for him and Christ did not die for garbage - only for His adopted and loved brothers. No ???? In faith, Dave Viva God's Texas dave@christos.e4ward.com, dpeirce@gmx.com Our King has died for us... Tell somebody!!

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You are right Dave Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:16:16 05/13/14 Tue we don't know each other and if you knew me you would know that I am not talking salvation here. Once redeemed you are always redeemed. The best way I can answer you is to ask you to go back and read each post carefully. You will see that I never advocated that he condemn himself. I simple told him that although he could receive forgiveness from all he asked forgiveness of he probably would never be able to forgive himself. He agreed with me. I did not advocate he not try. I simply stated a fact. A fact of my nature and a fact of his nature. If you go back and read Caren's last post, in effect she agreed with me. She doubted she would ever be able to forgive herself if she committed such an act.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Self-forgiveness Author: Dave [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:53:30 05/14/14 Wed I'd have to disagree strongly on that. The person should be encouraged by all who love him to forgive himself; personally, I would never agree with him if he said he couldn't and I would encourage him in self-forgiveness every chance I got. In faith, Dave Viva God's Texas dave@christos.e4ward.com, dpeirce@gmx.com I no longer have a heart; I gave it to Jesus.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: hi Dave Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:46:09 05/14/14 Wed I think we've hashed this one out enough, okay? Hillbilly's explained his remarks and now it's time to move on, okay?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Well, Hillbilly! Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:46:41 05/14/14 Wed Looks like there was a good dialogue while I was gone. I've known Dave for a long time at some other boards and he's a nice guy. I've thought of asking him if he'd like to join us, but know that you grew tired of the arguing that always broke out at the old Religion site, so just kept this little room private. He used to have a lot of dead-end discussions with our old friend Nucc--remember him? Nucc, the righteous judgement man. LOL! I also noticed Murray came back after a long absence. It appears we're having a bit of revival of sorts. 8-) Hopefully you've explained your position to everyone's satisfaction and we can move on to other topics. 8-)

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Dori, I'm in the process Author: Hillbilly [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:47:07 05/14/14 Wed I was surprised that this was an issue. What I wrote was actually part of a conversation I had with the man when he called me. I simply stated my belief to him and he agreed. In the past we had many conversations and we were always frank in our discussions. We did not "beat around the bush" and that is the way it should be. Good to see you made it back safe and sound. You didn't spoil that Granddaughter while you were there did you?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Nary a bit! Author: dori [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:31:56 05/14/14 Wed Oops! I need to confess a big sin--I think we DID spoil her just a tad! Hee hee... she is so much fun and growing so fast. And she thinks she is a little adult. They dote on her quite a bit and encourage her independence, but crack down when she gets demanding or whiny... grin. What a little cutie pie. It's so wonderful to be with her and very sad to leave her. I hope you're working on another controversial topic to generate traffic. We had all kinds of folks we rarely see weighing in, eh? *-)

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hi Murray Author: Gerryb [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:28:53 05/12/14 Mon Good to see you here. Please come back often.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hi Gerry Author: Murray [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:46:57 05/18/14 Sun Thanks Gerry! Not sure what I will do in the future.