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Subject: The Resurrections Post #11


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 20:06:57 04/30/10 Fri

When trying to come to and understanding of heavenly things and places it is always very helpful (actually necessary) to look to the Bible in it's typology. God has placed pictures throughout the Bible of events and even heavenly things. One of the most important passages in the Bible to understand this is found in the Book of Hebrews.

Let's look at a passage concerning this very subject: Hebrews 9:1-23 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. 6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

According to the verses above the earthly tabernacle was a pattern of heaven itself. The mercy seat was a picture of the throne. The Holiest Place would be the abode of God Himself. The Holy place would be just before you got to God. Notice that in the passage we see the priests could approach the Holiest Place but could not enter. Only the High Priest with the blood of the sacrifice could enter and then only once a year to offer for the sins of the people. What we need to see is the separation between the Holy God who is perfect and the priest who is not perfect. The high priest was reckoned perfect by the blood sacrifice he had sacrificed for himself before he was allowed into the presence of God to offer for the people. The High Priest was a type of Jesus Christ and until the "real McCoy" showed up there was no ready access to the Father. You had to go through a priest.

With that said let's take a look at the layout of the Tabernacle in the wilderness and also the Temple that Solomon built. The Tabernacle and the Temple had three basic divisions. You had the outer court, the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place. Just inside the opening to the outer court you would see the altar of sacrifice. As you proceeded westward toward the Holy Place you would see a laver of water for washing. This was placed just before the entrance to the Holy place that contained the Candlesticks and the table of shewbread. Past the shewbread and candles was the most holy place which contained the Mercy Seat overshadowed by the Cherubim.

What is interesting about this is the placement of the laver just before entering the Holy Place. If the tabernacle was a pattern for what is to be seen in heaven then is it possible the water represents the sea of glass? When Solomon built the Temple he built it from the plans that God gave to David his father according to 1 Chron. 28:19. Since we are looking at what the "sea" represents we need to look at the "sea" as Solomon was instructed to build it by God through his father David. 2 Chronicles 4:2-6 Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, (a cubit is 18" or 1 1/2 feet. That would make the diameter 15 feet across) round in compass, and five cubits (it is 1/2 in height to it's diameter so it will be 7 1/2 feet deep) the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits (45 ft. circumference) did compass it round about. 3 And under it was the similitude of oxen, which did compass it round about: ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about. Two rows of oxen were cast, when it was cast. 4 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward. 5 And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths. 6 He made also ten lavers, and put five on the right hand, and five on the left, to wash in them: such things as they offered for the burnt offering they washed in them; but the sea was for the priests to wash in.

A little research on the Hebrew "bath" yields conflicting data. You can find a bath to be equal to from 5.3 gallons per bath to somewhere between 10 and 11 gallons to a bath. Taking the lower number you would have the capacity of this "sea" holding 15,000 gallons of water. In 1 Kings 7:26 we are told the sea "contained" two thousand baths giving a seeming discrepancy of 1,000 baths. I don't see a contradiction as it would not be filled to the very capacity no more than a cup or glass you drink out of is filled all the way to the rim. Even at this you would have approximately 10,000 gallons of water and folks that is a lot of water. Why do you suppose the priests would need that much water to wash in before going into the holy place to do service. I really don't think they were that dirty. Remembering that the things in the tabernacle and temple were patterned after things in the heaven we see the possibility the brass "sea" represented the area of crystal or transparent glass before the throne of judgment we saw in the Book of Revelation. Going back now to the word for glass that we looked at earlier we see the root was the word for rain. Clear water. What have you got when you freeze that water? Well, if it is clear and pristine with no oxygen in it you have what looks to be clear transparent glass or crystal. Is it possible that this "sea of glass" is actually frozen water? Chrystal clear ice? Could this be the sea that gave up it's dead in Revelation 20:13?

Notice these verses in the Book of Job where God is asking Job a few questions that Job obviously can't answer. Job 38:29-32 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? 30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. 31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

If you take notice of the names given above and if you anything of astronomy you recognized these as constellations and stars or star groups. Everything in the passage is found in the heavens. Verse 30 says the "face of the deep is frozen" and it is in the middle of the passage dealing with heavenly things. The deep referred to here is evidently what we would call deep space. Going all the way back to Genesis we see a few things that would lead us to believe there is a vast amount of water in the heavens. Any water in the heavens would be frozen. Some expanses would reach absolute zero in temperature so of course there would be no liquid. In the beginning we see references to this expanse: Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The deep mentioned here would not be the oceans. Notice that at this time what constituted the earth had no form to it. Now if it was a sphere it had a round form but the Bible says at this time it had no form to it and it was empty. Noting was in it. nor on it. The deep at this point then had to mean something else than water on the earth or under the earth. While the earth was in it's formless and empty state the Spirit of God moved on the face of the water which was in the deep. This is interesting because it shows that the water while not on the earth was collected together as a huge ocean floating in space.

Genesis 1:6-8 tells us there is water above the heaven and below the heaven. Verse 9 tells us the water under the heaven was gathered in one place and then the earth appeared out of the water. This would constitute the creation of the formed earth. The water under the heaven was then gathered into one place and called seas. This all shows that there is or was water in the heaven above the atmosphere we call the first heaven. That places a body of water in outer space or the second heaven. In Jeremiah's day that water was still there. Jeremiah 10:12-13 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens (plural) by his discretion. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, (plural) and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. The plural "heavens" used twice shows the waters being mentioned are not contained to this earth. We are not given the size of this body of water or waters in the heavens but a portion was used to bring about the flood.

Genesis 7:11-12 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. Nearly every comment or message I have heard preached had the fountains on the earth broken up. Why is it that the reference in verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1 are overlooked as a possibility for the source of the fountains. If the fountains were in the earth then why does it state explicitly that the windows of heaven were opened as the fountains of the "great deep" were broken up? There also is no mention of water rising from the ground. The great deep would be deep space.

Moving on we see in Genesis 8:1-2 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; 2The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. Once again we see the windows were stopped and the rain from heaven ceased.. There is no mention of springs of water from underneath. The source of the rain was staunched and the evidence points to the direction of heaven. Now when we see in Job 38:30 that the face of the deep is frozen it takes on a new meaning doesn't it? That same verse says that the waters were "hid as with a stone." When you see solid ice you don't think it terms of liquid but as something as hard as a rock.

While I cannot prove the glassy sea is ice nor can I prove the souls of the saved that had died during the millennial kingdom were in or on that expanse before the throne I believe there is more evidence to this than there is souls released from the waters on the earth.

NASA has been looking for water in outer space for a long time. Until recently they wondered. Had they believed God's Holy Word they would have known.

This concludes the resurrections of the dead, both saved and unsaved but there remains a resurrection in type or allegorical resurrection if you will to be examined. That will be our next post.

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Replies:
[> Subject: My goodness, Hillbilly!


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 10:29:37 05/02/10 Sun

That is overwhelming to an ignoramus like me. LOL! This one will take several readings to comprehend. I'd best get on it. 8-)
[> Subject: Phew that is deep water for sure, whether icy or not


Author:
Sandy
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Date Posted: 18:55:47 05/03/10 Mon

Yes, I can see what your saying there about the temple in heaven.

Except I would also add the tabernacle that was on earth also represents a depiction of mankind somewhat too as I see it.

Not that you are wrong in what you are saying either as I do not see you are about this also depicting the temple in Heaven as well.

But just saying I also see our flesh representing the outer court of the Mosaic temple, our soul representing the Holy Place, and the Holy of Holies representing the most Holy place as well. Not to confuse this with the temple that is in Heaven either, as there certainly is one. But to see the believers as the temples of God today that are in Christ. Except that our outer court is sinful even as that believer, needing to be changed or ultimately destroyed, just as it says there in Rm. 6:6. Which will happen eventually when we are resurrected in that final resurrection of course. But if we are in Him and HIS house, then we are also spiritually with him at this time too, which it says we are in Eph. 2:5-6 as well as some other places in scripture also, I believe.

But still, as I see it, God intended for us to be the temples of God within the inner man, much as Jesus was. Except our flesh is sinful still, whereas HIS never was ever. Even as that man. If it had been, He could not have been the sacrifice for us on that cross after all. But we are able to come before the throne in sacrifices and prayers as well, can we not, since we are in Christ spiritually? Even though true, we are only there in spirit of course, and not as Christ is as of yet.

The scriptures I am seeing this thru is written first of all in what it does say about us in 1st Cor. 3:16-17. Which clearly says the one that does abide in christs as He abides in them are his temples today on this earth at this time. Those temples, making up the church or body of Christ that is here at this time of course.

So am wondering, just how this fits in with what you are saying so far. Which I also need to look at again, studying closer too. As like Dori, I need to re read several times what you have written about this concerning what you are seeing about the sea especially.

But did want to add that, as it probably does have something to do with what we are speaking of here possibly as well. It could as I see it so far anyway.

Also not sure if your saying we cannot enter in totally into the place where Christ is while still here on this earth or not? My seeing we can, at least at this time anyway. But mainly because of what Peter writes in 1st Pet. 2:5. At least at this time, I believe we are able to. But will wait until you do add more to this of course.

But did want to add that for you to consider possibly at the same time too. But also not wanting to cause confusion hopefully either. If I am, just let me know, and I will shut up. LOL OK?

Blessings,
Sandy
[> [> Subject: Sandy,


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 19:28:38 05/03/10 Mon

What you are saying of the representation of the Temple and the body is just as true as the heavenly temple. I have addressed only the reason I believe the "sea" might likely be frozen water i.e. crystal. The references I gave were to show there is still a multitude of water in the heavens and not just the first heaven which is the atmosphere we breathe. Truly we are the temple of God at this time but only as you say in the spiritual sense.

As everything in the Tabernacle in the wilderness and then the Temple which Solomon built is representative of the temple in Heaven there must be a representation of the "sea" before the throne which John sees so many souls standing on.
I see this as a "holding place" if you will just as "Abraham's Bosom" (Luke 16:22) i.e. paradise (Lk. 23:43)was a holding place for the saved Old Testament Saints until the Perfect Sacrifice on Calvary was accomplished.

Those souls there on the "sea" would be waiting for their bodies in the resurrection. They would be tribulation saints and later on, saints who died during the millennium. They would not be allowed into the third heaven until they had been resurrected into their bodies and judged.

As a side note. Many have wondered how Satan could come into the presence of God in Heaven (Job 1 and 2) after being cast out. The outer court of the temple explains it. The profane could come into the outer court (sin can be in the flesh) but without the blood applied no one could get to the holy places. That is the connection. The water in the temple was for a ceremonial cleansing. Those who are on the sea in heaven are cleansed but they still can't get into the "most Holy Place" until after their judgment.

We must also remember that none of the souls on the "sea" awaiting judgment are Church age Christians. The Church is raised prior to the tribulation and is ruling and reigning with Christ at this time we are presented with in the Book of Revelation.
[> [> [> Subject: Hi Hillbilly


Author:
SAndy
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Date Posted: 23:17:47 05/03/10 Mon

thanks Hillbilly. I agree. Although not sure who it might include entirely on my part anyway.

You also mentioned the children, which I thought was interesting too. Agreeing also with that.

As to anyone else, like I said, I really don't know. I do try not to assume anything when it comes to these judgments at all.

But true, it will definitely not include anyone that is in the first resurrection for sure.

But thanks for sharing this, as it is good to find someone else that is seeing people saved in that resurrection too.

Although true, there apparently was some of the OT saints that were resurrected before this one too. That is unless that one is not a corporate one, happening all at once for everyone either.

As I have looked at the possibilities of this being true about both as well.

But don't want to get into that, as it is only a possibility with me of course. meaning not something I am going to say for sure at all.

Oh the reason I said some seemed to be resurrected before, was because of what it does say in Mt. 27:52-53. But then it also says that David is not ascended into the heavens yet in Acts 2:34. So therefore, that your speaking of there would have to be some of the OT of course. As I do not see David being in hell, or cast into the Lake of Fire either. But it does suggest somewhat that all that is in death and hell will be cast into that lake of fire possibly. Just my thoughts on what I have seen to date anyways.

Appreciate you sharing this with me very much though.

Blessings to you and Dale both too.


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