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Subject: Dan. Chap 7 vss 24-28 post 41


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 18:38:58 05/11/10 Tue

Daniel 7:24-28 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. 28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

The narrative of the vision has proceeded in the order that Daniel saw the vision. He has seen the four beasts arise from the great sea. He has described them as a two winged lion, a bear with three ribs in his mouth, a four headed and four winged leopard and finally an almost indescribable beast which was "exceeding dreadful" (vs. 19). Daniel is intrigued by what the dream could mean and an angel seen in the vision tells him what the four beasts stand for. The answer given in verse 17 is thus: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." Two things stand out in the verse. The first is that the meaning of the vision is future to Daniel and two, the beasts are first and foremost four kings that shall arise out of the earth. They are monarchs or dictators. They are kings and I do not think they are prime ministers or presidents elected to service. The secondary understanding is that if there is a king then it follows their is a kingdom so we have four kings ruling over four kingdoms. Daniel is given to understand the four kingdoms will stand until "the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever." This is very important because if show this to be an end time vision. We are not told when the first beast arises but we know when they all four will end. These kings will be found in the feet of clay and iron in Nebuchadnezzar's dream in chapter two. The wording "shall arise out of the earth" in verse 17 may well have supernatural meaning. Remember how many times our attention has been drawn to the iron which will not mix with the seed of men in chapter 2. Also remember in Genesis 6 we are shown the sons of God marrying the daughters of men. In Job we have a verse that sheds light on this: Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Up and down! Not east, west, north and south as these would be the "to and fro" preceeding the up and down. Satan has access to the surface world and the underworld. All of this is pointing to the possibility of supernatural "kings" on the earth in the last days. Notice again a verse we have looked at before in this light: Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. A king of the underworld who comes to the surface to do untold damage and destruction. I don't know about you but to me this explains a lot of the lunacy in the world today. Devils have been turned loose and they are in high places. (Eph. 6:11-12)

This last beast that so terrified and intrigued Daniel will be very much in this category. I believe we can safely say he is the very seed of Satan. (Gen. 3:15) This last beast made Daniel almost forget the other three because of what he saw and heard from this beast. Daniel wants to know about the ten horns on the head of this beast/king. The answer from the angel is that they represent ten kings that shall arise out of the beasts kingdom. They would be lesser monarchs or dictators ruling over bounded lands withing the domain of the beast. They will derive their power from the beast and rule at his pleasure. The "little horn" which was "more stout than his fellows" (vs.20) will have a special place during this end time kingdom. Notice he has eyes as a man and a mouth speaking great things. (Dan. 7:8) There is a possibility in my mind that this could be the false prophet of Revelation 16:13 and Revelation 13:11-18. This is the one who exercises the power of the beast of Rev. 13 which had the wound to the head but lived. (Rev. 13:3)

This little horn will subdue three of the original horns on the beast. In verse 25 we see the blasphemy of this "little horn". We also see his warfare against all who will stand for God during these days. The focus of the beast's wrath will be upon believing Israel who will be turning back to God at this time but anyone refusing the mark and following God will face his wrath. (Rev. 13:17 and 15:2). He will try to change times and laws. (as a side note is it not interesting at the push for Sharia Law around the world today?) The time element for him to be given a free hand against the saints will be "a time and times and the dividing of time." This will be equal to 42 months (Rev. 13:5) and 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3, 12:6). It is for 3 1/2 years. The exact length of the "great tribulation" when God's wrath is poured. The total for all the tribulation will be 7 years with a relative peace for the first half.

"But the judgment shall sit,---" As the old song says "Turn out the lights, the party's over". For the anti-Christ and the false prophet the party is definitely over (Rev. 19:20). For a thousand years the party will be over for Satan as he is bound (Rev. 20:1-3) until the end of God's seventh day of rest (2 Pet. 3:8 with Heb. 4:9) on the earth then he is to be loosed a little season to give his last shot against God. Rev. 20:7-10).

As bad as things will get there is always hope for the people of God. While Daniel 7 is mostly about Satan's free romp in control of the earth the good news is that the judgment will sit and then God's kingdom on earth will begin "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."

An everlasting kingdom. Never to end. All tears wiped away. No pain. No sorrow. No death. God will never be disobeyed again and there will be no more sin. The sin nature of Adam will have finally been put to rest never to be resurrected again. That is reason to hope and bless and praise God for this very great promise He has given to us.

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Replies:
[> Subject: This one is puzzling to me, HB....


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 23:03:30 05/25/10 Tue

I hope you'll expand a bit more on it for the terminally dense--that be me. *-)
[> Subject: The fourth Kingdom


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 21:00:45 05/26/10 Wed

Dori, in order to have a better understanding we must go backward a little from verse 24. Looking at verse 23 which we touched on in post 40 we see this: Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

You might wonder how it could be the 4th kingdom on the earth when there have been many. We need to understand that God is pointing to specific kingdoms at specific times. This 4th kingdom or beast as it is described, is the last kingdom on earth when the Lord Jesus returns in the advent (see Zechariah 14 with Revelation 19:11-21). This 4th beast of Daniel 7 is the same kingdom that is shown in Daniel 2:40-44. In Daniel 2 only 4 Kingdoms are shown but they span 2,600 years. This 4th kingdom will be ruled by devils. Again we must realize the 1ron in the feet and toes of the 4th beast in Daniel 2 are not of the seed of Adam. They are of the seed of Satan. Verse 43 of Daniel 2 is the key to understanding this. If the clay is the seed of men then the iron can't be. The last kingdom which will have seven heads and ten horns will be ruled by devils! They will be on the thrones and probably in the White House. (We may already have one of them now). This is the reason Daniel could not believe what he was seeing in the vision of the 4th beast. This is why it was so dreadful and terrible. He saw the power of Satan unleashed in this 4th beast and it's kingdom.

We are being given bits and pieces of this through out Daniel. Each chapter dealing with the end time prophecies adds a little more to the puzzle yet we are never given the whole. Daniel was told to "shut up the words and seal the book,even to the time of the end:"(Dan. 12:4) so until God unseals this book during the tribulation (Rev. 5:1-9). The first seal is actually opened in Rev. 6:1.

I hope Christians everywhere can wake up to the fact that all that looks like a man may not be a son of Adam. Satan's devils are among us today and just as the offspring of devils and daughters of men produced a mighty and renowned people (Gen. 6:1-4) who were idolized by mortal man these today have a mystique and power that draws mankind to them by their "star power".

The anti-Christ will have this power over people and only faith in God will overcome his power.

The ten horns and the extra little horn that pops us will be kingdom states that will co-rule with the anti-Christ but they will be in power only at his discretion. Kinda like the old Soviet Union. On paper countries such as Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had independent leaders but let them cross Russia and you saw they were mere puppets. That will be the rule with the 10 horns.

As we go through the book of Daniel in these next 5 chapters we will see more details but we may never fully understand what we see just as Daniel saw but could not understand it all.
[> [> Subject: The fourth Kingdom


Author:
Sandy
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Date Posted: 15:39:06 05/27/10 Thu

Hillbilly,

I wrote something about this the other day, but must not have posted it right, not checking.

But have a question about this fourth kingdom you are talking about.

Is it supposed to happen before the Millenium or 1000 year reign, or after this, when satan is once again loosed to decieve the nations written about after the 1000 according to Revealtions chapter 20? But before The battle of Gog and Magog?

Am asking because I see it as possibly happening after the 100 years when he is loosed to go out and deceive all the nations?
[> [> [> Subject: The 4th Kingdom


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 16:02:54 05/27/10 Thu

Sandy,

I believe the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 and 7 are just prior to the Millennial Kingdom of 1,000 years.

If you look at Daniel 2 you see the 4 kingdoms start with Nebuchadnezzar. It goes then to Media/Persia then to Greece and then the unnamed kingdom which most assume to be Rome. Looking at the time period for the 4th kingdom you see the stone cut out without hands hitting the feet of the image which is the 4th kingdom. This brings down all 4 kingdoms showing even Babylon (Iraq), Iran (Media/Persia) and Greece still exist up until the end along with the 4th kingdom.

The description of the 4th kingdom in Daniel 7 matches much of the description of the beast in Revelation 13 with the 7 heads and ten horns. To me the seven heads are additional detail not given in Daniel. This would be expected as Daniel was to be a closed book until the time of the end.

If I missed a post to me from you I apologize. Sometimes I miss them if they have scrolled down the page a few posts. I have to keep my monitor on 800 X 600 because of my poor eyesight. This causes fewer posts to be displayed and I sometimes just don't scroll down far enough to find a new post. If you ever post a question or comment and I don't answer it will be becuase I have missed it. Drop a note in a new thread where I can't miss it. I visit almost every day.

God bless and have a great Memorial Day weekend.
[> [> [> [> Subject: The 4th Kingdom


Author:
Sandy
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Date Posted: 11:32:23 05/29/10 Sat

Hi Hillbilly,

You didn't miss the point, because I failed to put it in there adequately. And meant to come back and add to it, but then got sidetracked on other things, oldzheimers kicking in then. :-)

I agree with you partly, that part of that may represent what is to happen before the 1000 years, that is true. But possibly not all of it. And my reason for saying this is what it does finally say will take place written mainly in verses 26-27. As that will not happen it seems, until the very of time after the battle of Gog and Magog takes place will it?

Meaning if that be true, then there possibly has to be some sort of a breaking point taking place within what Daniel did see there, between what takes place before the millenium, and what takes place when the devil is loosed for a time. of indeed part of it was before the millenium that is.

Hope I have explained better why I am asking what I am now. My just not being sure where that breaking point might be. that is if indeed there is one of course.


Blessings, Sandy
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: You are not alone in your


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 19:59:58 05/29/10 Sat

belief in the possibility of Gog and Magog being after the Kingdom. The reason being Gog and Magog are listed in Rev. 20:8 as being those brought to the last battle.

One of the main reasons I have not seen it that way is the order of things in Ezekiel 37 through 39. In 37 you have the regathering of Israel. In 38 and 39 you have the battles including what I believe is Armageddon. In Ezekiel 39 beginning with verse 9 you have the burning of the weapons and the continual burial of the dead.

However it may pan out we can be sure that no matter how black and dark the storm gets God will still be in contol.

In Revelation 20:9 the fire from God devours them and there is nothing to bury. Immediately after the fire from God we are shown the judgment of God and then the New Heaven and New earth starting in Rev. 21
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You are not alone in your


Author:
Sandy
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Date Posted: 00:07:44 05/30/10 Sun

Yes. No matter which is right doesn't matter as long as we are right with the Lord.

In the beginning, I was obsessed with reading and studying everything I could about this subject. Until the Lord said STOP trying to figure all of this out. Which I did do. Thank goodness I did. As it does not matter who is right about what concerning this issue, as you say. What is important is our following after Christ daily, just trusting i HIM.

Blessings,
Sandy


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