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Date Posted: 10:27:40 06/13/02 Thu
Author: Fleisch
Subject: Buffy and Smoking
I'm bound to start a flame war with this (pun intended but not actually managed) so I thought I'd raise it off-list. Does anyone else find it jarring when Buffy starts smoking in fics? Or is it just me? It's usually intended, I think, to indicate her identifying with Spike (it often shows up in fics where she's driven him anyway), but sometimes it reflects other things (nervousness, depression, rebellion, coolness [?], post-coital relaxation, or no reason at all). Whatever the writer's intended reason, I never buy it, it only has one effect on me -- it completely draws me out of the fic and makes me think about the author instead -- hm, I bet the author's a smoker and is just having Buffy take on one of her/his characteristics. Because if the author isn't a smoker, I can't see how he/she could ever imagine Buffy smoking, for any reason. It just seems completely out of character, as Buffy comes off as a rabid anti-smoker (or maybe I'M confusing her with SMG). I think she'd shoot up heroin first. Or is this just me?
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yes and no -- DeepaD, 12:29:49 06/13/02 Thu
in most places, yes, i think its the author mary sueing. but sometimes it works, like in the case of Annie Sewell-Jennings's The Last Summer. I thought the smoking was fairly integrally worked in.
But then, there are so many buffy traits that are actually completely out of character according to canon, that unless the writing itself is bad, i can ignore it.
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Re: Buffy and Smoking -- LJ, 12:47:34 06/13/02 Thu
>I'm bound to start a flame war with this (pun intended
Let's not...why don't we aim for a 'healthy' discussion...(pun only 1/2 intended)
>but not actually managed) so I thought I'd raise it
>off-list. Does anyone else find it jarring when Buffy
>starts smoking in fics? Or is it just me? It's
I find it particularly jarring whenever any of the characters starts smoking. While Spike is a smoker (although it's debatable now), none of the other characters have smoked in the whole of the series - except Giles (poss. Joyce too) when he regressed in "Band Candy" and that's an acceptable exception. Some of the evil characters have smoked - look at the first few moments of Angelus in Season 2. There have been one or two fics where Dawn has *tried* smoking, but it's mostly been standard teenage experimentation glued together with the fact that Spike was her "guardian" over the summer.
>usually intended, I think, to indicate her identifying
>with Spike (it often shows up in fics where she's
>driven him anyway), but sometimes it reflects other
>things (nervousness, depression, rebellion, coolness
>[?], post-coital relaxation, or no reason at all).
The ones I have read have all seemed to be the identification scenario, which then turns into nervousness/depression: i.e. she tries a cigarette from a pack that he's left behind to see what it's like, to remember how he "tasted" or smelled, and then, weeks later, suddenly realizes that she's started doing it when she's neverous/depressed.
>Whatever the writer's intended reason, I never buy it,
>it only has one effect on me -- it completely draws me
>out of the fic and makes me think about the author
>instead -- hm, I bet the author's a smoker and is just
>having Buffy take on one of her/his characteristics.
About 90% of the time that's what I think, too. To me, it simply seems out of character for any of the Scoobies.
>Because if the author isn't a smoker, I can't see how
>he/she could ever imagine Buffy smoking, for any
>reason. It just seems completely out of character, as
>Buffy comes off as a rabid anti-smoker (or maybe I'M
>confusing her with SMG). I think she'd shoot up
>heroin first. Or is this just me?
It's not really been shown, as best I can remember, that Buffy or any of the others are "rabid anti-smokers", but they have been fairly healthy re: smoking/drugs/alcohol, which I think is wonderful. Compared to so many other shows, the drinking that *has* been shown is...sedate and controlled. I would rather that there was even LESS drinking, but it's been handled responsibly compared to other programs.
I don't know if smokers realize this, but there is a "smoker" attitude that I keep running into. Basically, it's that there's nothing at all wrong with smoking (in particular, that it has absolutely no impact on one's health!) and nonsmokers shouldn't mind smokers smoking around them. I've seen this in both my age group (college students) and older individuals (relatives, teachers/professors). Smokers are very offended when people refer to smoking as a bad thing, as unclean, vile, wrong, -- take your pick of adjectives.
The clearest example of this I've ever seen is in workshopping an original fic I wrote for a creative writing class. One of the minor characters, who was greatly disliked by the narrator, was a smoker, and the narrator comments that she can't understand why that character's wife, a nurse, could put up with such a "vile" habit for all these years, particularly since their children became very, very ill (bronchitis, etc -- this was based on personal and familial experiences) on a regular basis because of it. It turned out that several individuals who were critiquing my story were smokers themselves. They were really, really offended that I was saying this character was vile just because he was a smoker! They completely overlooked all the other bad qualities and latched onto the smoking part. *I* was offended by their narrow-mindedness.
If you haven't already guessed, I *am* a rabid anti-smoker myself and smokers as a whole really drive me insane on a daily basis. The smell of the smoke and the "texture" of the smoke in the air itself makes me sick, gives me headaches, makes me feel dirty. I have to avoid people I know are smokers, even if they're actually nice people or pleasant classmates that I would normally get along with, because of this. I could go on and on about this, talk about my misery as an exchange student to Germany, where about 50% of the population smokes on a regular basis, including my host parents, and about my friendships cut short because I physically could not be around people who smoked. But this isn't really the place for it.
But, yes, about 90-99% of the time, Buffy+Smoking=Huh?
LJ
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here here! -- DeepaD, 07:47:47 06/14/02 Fri
Absolutely on board with you here LJ! In fact, I think one of the mercies of the online world is that you don't have to give a rat's ass about what vile habits the person at the other end has.
Deepa D.
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the smoker's two cents... <g> -- angela, 09:09:12 06/15/02 Sat
>I don't know if smokers realize this, but there is a
>"smoker" attitude that I keep running into. Basically,
>it's that there's nothing at all wrong with smoking
>(in particular, that it has absolutely no impact on
>one's health!) and nonsmokers shouldn't mind smokers
>smoking around them.
Yes, there's a bit of attitude, but I think that's understandable when people you don't know from Adam constantly walk up to you and comment on your smoking. "You know, smoking is killing you!", etc. What does make me mad is that smokers pay a substantial tax on their cigarettes, and any time a city needs a new stadium or something, the first response is: "Let's increase the sin tax!" Of course, smokers aren't permitted to smoke in what they just paid for, either. Really, it's a bit hypocritical - Don't smoke, unless there's something we really want but can't pay for!
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Re: the smoker's two cents... <g> -- Taramisu, 10:20:51 06/18/02 Tue
>Yes, there's a bit of attitude, but I think that's
>understandable when people you don't know from Adam
>constantly walk up to you and comment on your smoking.
There are a lot of people out there allergic to smoke and it causes difficulty breathing. How is it fair that one person should be allowed to smoke in public, when other peoples' health is at risk...short term and long term?
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Re: Buffy and Smoking -- Robert, 23:02:11 06/14/02 Fri
>I can't see how
>he/she could ever imagine Buffy smoking, for any
>reason. It just seems completely out of character, as
>Buffy comes off as a rabid anti-smoker (or maybe I'M
>confusing her with SMG). I think she'd shoot up
>heroin first. Or is this just me?
No. The only circumstances I can see Buffy smoking in
are if she's on the edge of mental collapse and under
the influence of a smoker, who would falsely claim that
smoking could help her.
Of course, it's likely that Slayer healing means Buffy
could smoke or take other drugs without inflicting any
permanent damage on herself but that's not likely to
affect Buffy's behaviour.
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Re: Buffy and Smoking -- Taramisu, 19:39:19 06/18/02 Tue
>It just seems completely out of character,
It is SO not just you. I actually stopped reading a fic when Buffy picked up a cigarette. It's like Buffy becoming a whore to make money. (I've seen that in a fic, didn't like the idea at all, but had to ignore it since the rest was so fantasic.)
Taramisu
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