Hi Erik -- <font size = "4">The Drunks Bar </font size "4">

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Date Posted: 11:32:21 06/27/05 Mon
Author: SM77
Subject: Hi Erik
In reply to: Eric 's message, "Atheism's central claim" on 07:54:54 06/24/05 Fri

I've always enjoyed your work as well. I hope we can have a DB Revival and it may be that we will need to start over with a DB II just to unload the luggage of the past.

A lot has happened since I left and came back. Some of my attitudes have changed or softened just as a function of age and experience.

I have what I think is a unique philosophical way to account for the simulataneous existence of theism and atheism as well as monotheism and polytheism. It is based on a paradox that I discuss in my book. If you or Kathy e-mailed me and asked for a copy, please re-send and identify who is requesting a copy so I know. I never send courtesy copies to people whose identity I don't know.

In general, atheism and theism cannot be proven or disproven because there is not enough available data nor is there a way to verify the existing data.

Anyone who gets serious about God will quickly realize the inadequacy of "feelings" as a metric of God. Human feelings seldom have anything to do with reality.

In Zen we learn that feelings are just how a person feels. They don't have to mean anything. A person is not obligated to their feelings, they don't have to believe them or do anything with them except notice them and not react. Feelings give us songs such as this classic stinker by the '70's band Gemini:

Feelings, nothing more than feelings,
Trying to forget my feelings of love.
Teardrops rolling down on my face,
Trying to forget my feelings of love.

Feelings, for all my life I'll feel it.
I wish I've never met you, girl;
You'll never come again.

Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
Wo-o-o, feel you again in my arms.

Feelings, feelings
Like I've never lost you
And feelings like I've never
Have you again in my heart.

Feelings, for all my life I'll feel it.
I wish I've never met you, girl;
You'll never come again.

Feelings, feelings like I've
Never lost you
And feelings like I've never have you
Again in my life.

Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
Wo-o-o, feelings again in my arms.
Feelings...

*****

Songs such as these make an argument for society to forcibly euthenize the artist for our own good.

*****

"Realization" is distinguised from "belief" by all of the great spiritual teachers. There is a profound experience that opens one's eyes to a larger reality.

Consider these fundamental questions:

1) Are you the one who is living you now, or is a greater power accomplishing you? Who or what is breathing your breath and pumping your heart in this moment and at every moment?

2) Who is the "I" inside of you to which all internal and external phenomena and sensations are referred? Is this "I" separate from the Universe or does it arise from the Universe?

3) From where do you arise? You arise from Universal processes over which you have no control. Egg and sperm met and you were summoned by biological processes and the actions of your parents. You are, in some sense, the Universe localized and speaking in a human body. Thus, humans are an expression of the Universe in particular and individualized forms. We cannot be other than the Universe. We are intelligent as a function of the Universe being intellligent. We make "smart" devices and yet the ancient Earth produced DNA and the even more ancient Universe produced the Earth. Who or what is the power that underlies the Universe? Who or what is the intelligence of the Universe? Whoever or whatever, this intelligence predated humanity and will be there after our extinction as a species.

4) What are the odds of an impersonal force having originated the human body and its perceptual abilities? Can personality come from impersonality? We as humans can make impersonal objects such as cars, but how could impersonal objects, as proposed by atheistic evolution, generate personal beings that can communicate and think?

5) Why is there so much order in the Universe? Consider the precision of physics: How could such immense order have appeared without a Great Architect?

These are the sorts of questions that have driven me for at least 25 years.

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