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Date Posted: 02:01:56 06/12/05 Sun
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: TQ 's message, "Fair Winds. . part 2. . .Inside" on 01:54:39 06/12/05 Sun

TQ, this is really awesome!! What a lot of work you did to put this together for us. Thank you so much. I know it will answer lots of questions for people. As for the colors of the pages, I wonder what color that kissy scene in Harm's apartment was printed on? Psychedelic? LOL Had to be something unusual so that it could be kept out of the regular loop and kept a secret. (NT) -- The Chief, 14:49:02 06/06/05 Mon

Leaving in "The Beginning" would have been a really nice touch, IMO. Kind of gives one the feeling that JAG will live on, regardless of networks and ratings. At the very least, it would have cut my JAG mourning time down by at least a few days, hehe. Thank you for all the work you put into this post. Twas enlightening! (NT) -- Nid, 17:46:16 06/06/05 Mon

Oh yeah....TQ this was great....but now I'm even more happy with the ending we got....(smile) (NT) -- mkim, 03:06:17 06/06/05 Mon

Thanks TQ, most illuminating. But I have to ask, how did you get all the versions of the script? Did you work on set? I do think we did end up with the best version. If it had ended without them getting together I think violence would have erupted. (NT) -- clr, 04:39:46 06/06/05 Mon

Nope, never worked on the set (but sure wish I could now that I have time). As to your first question, serendipity , fortuitious-ness, being at the right place at the right time but delightfully quite unexpectedly. (NT) -- TQ, 11:45:32 06/06/05 Mon

Thanks TQ. I am a very thankful for the ending we got and that they changed the conversation at Harm�s. The other two endings were interesting especially the one with the ring but if we had the orginial convo at Harm�s apartment it would have seemed weird to then have the proposal. I wouldn�t have minded the superimposing of �The Beginning� though that would have been nice. Does anyone else feel like there was a level of malice in some of the writing the last two years that wasn�t there before? (NT) -- Hope, 07:57:18 06/06/05 Mon

Also I wonder why after cutting the party scenes they didn�t have Harm wear something else to the bar. It sounds like the General was no longer wearing his Mess Dress so why was Harm still wearing his. It looked good on him but still seemed strange they didn�t change that. (NT) -- Hope, 08:18:37 06/06/05 Mon

that's the part that has always frustrated me... the writers must have been thinking something when they left Harm in mess dress and got mac all dolled up..It would have made more sense if the wedding were supposed to take place right ther at McMurphys before one of them had to leave the next day... but they didn't play it out that way. Too bad they didn't explain that somewhere in all those change pages... (NT) -- Chris K, 10:51:06 06/06/05 Mon

Hope this makes sense...I think they might have FILMED (not just written) more than just then ending we got. Remember one of the pictures in TV Guide showed a STAGED laugh?? In TQ's post, note the version at McMurphy's that ends where Mac gives Harm her keys. In that scene, after the toast, the notes say that "hilarity ensues". That could be where they filmed the staged laughter. They might have filmed ALL the bar scene versions, then made the decision later about which one to use. Maybe that explains why they left them in those outfits?? (NT) -- grits, 12:14:05 06/06/05 Mon

Everything we've heard and been told is that there were three endings written, but only one ending shot. We have no reason to believe otherwise - except for our inability to accept reality. (NT) -- lruker, 13:25:54 06/06/05 Mon

I've heard speculation that only one ending was filmed....but, I've never seen any post from anyone with proof positive of that information. (NT) -- grits, 15:29:48 06/06/05 Mon

I thought Harriet posted something about it at the Yahoo list. I'll have to dig in my email to see if I kept it. (NT) -- lruker, 20:39:37 06/06/05 Mon

I'm hoping that more than one ending was filmed, and we get to see it on the DVD. (NT) -- NanaSue, 16:46:11 06/06/05 Mon

Hope I do believe there was a degree of malice in the last two years...its what had most of us so frustrated...We didnt recognize most of the beloved characters on the show. All the good passion was gone only to be replaced by that hateful and silent business we saw between all the characters. (NT) -- mkim, 11:56:25 06/06/05 Mon

I just wonder where it came from. At times it would seem like the old JAG and then other times could hardly recognize them. What were the writers thinking when they wrote some of those lines or when they would leave out any personal interaction between the characters. It just doesn�t make any sense. (NT) -- Hope, 12:00:56 06/06/05 Mon

There could hve been writers with diffrent visions of who the characters were. I think I've heard heard a particular writer mentioned who was less of a 'shipper' than most and even seemed to put in a great deal of hard conflict. IL'm not talking banter...it left for the most part that last two years. (NT) -- mkim don't want to mention names..wanted to give the moderators a break., 12:06:13 06/06/05 Mon

I think part of the problem was they didn't want NCIS to look like a JAG carbon copy - so they left NCIS with the humor and interaction and stripped it at JAG... among other things. (NT) -- Chris K, 13:04:00 06/06/05 Mon

Chris, I never will understand why that was necessary, even if this was the last year. With all the talented people writing in Hollywood you would think they could mange two great story lines and wind JAG up with class.(more than 7.5 minutes worth) (NT) -- mkim, 13:18:40 06/06/05 Mon

I think DPB was worried about NCIS. First Monday had already failed. And he was mad at CB for being pregnant, which probably forced changes in the season's story arc. Then after DJE negotiated, he was ticked off about that. I think DPB knew the end of S8 that even if JAG continued he wouldn't renegotiate with DJE which would mean him leaving at the end of S10. (NT) -- NanaSue...I think it was all about egos, and DPB wanting to reinforce that he was the Big Kahuna., 16:44:49 06/06/05 Mon

Thanks for all of this, TQ! I was really curious about rewrites and alternate endings. Maybe someone can refresh my memory on when cancellation was announced, so I can fit that into the rewrite picture. I think I like the ending we got best, although I would have loved to see the scene with Mac's apartment key and the flirting. Maybe that could be put on a DVD in the future for our drooling pleasure. LOL! (NT) -- shygirl, 08:55:18 06/06/05 Mon

CBS announced on April 4th that JAG wouldn't be renewed. They finished filming on March 23rd or 24th and the wrap party was April 4th. (NT) -- MAL....who thinks TPTB knew they wouldn't get another season., 10:44:02 06/06/05 Mon

That should be the wrap party was on April 2nd! (NT) -- MAL...it's too early and I need caffiene, 10:45:08 06/06/05 Mon

I have to do this bit by bit..... It's obvious they had to delete that lines - that's not far enough from Harm and Mac's first conversation - definitely would not have contributed to a shipper ending..LOL - I wonder if they figured that out before or after they got the word about being cancelled. - I actually prefer the shortened conversation between Harm and Mike... if it had been more revealing of positive emotions - than I would have liked the longer dialoguee. but it was too focused on Mikey and set him up for next year... I'm just as happy without that extra little dialogue. (NT) -- Chris K - loving this long read over breakfast, 10:47:33 06/06/05 Mon

TQ, thank you so much for sharing! As a few others have said, it makes me even happier with the end we got. Just wish the had left in "The Begining". (NT) -- MAL, 10:49:11 06/06/05 Mon

I find it interesting that the writers changed their minds about Mattie just coming to 'visit' in london after rehab to Harm filing for custody again.... Seeing this little changes really makes me wonder what was going on at the discussion tables to make these writers shift from one approach to another... and then give such few details in the proces.. .LOl (NT) -- Chris K - I wonder if someone decided it was out of character for Harm to go off and leave Mattie under the guardianship of a drunken father??? LOL, 10:55:38 06/06/05 Mon

I think that might have been it. It was summed up (although the details weren't explained) with him saying the court hadn't considered it yet but Tom wasn't fighting it. I know that it was "dramatic license" to have him have to rush to London and her to SD, but if he had sole custody of a kid who was in serious medical shape, he could have gotten out of it/postponed it until she was more on the road to recovery. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^<, 11:28:59 06/06/05 Mon

I know that was interesting. Some of the dialog was just strange and kind of contradictory to past episodes. Some of it felt very out of character. I�m glad they made the changes they did. (NT) -- Hope - I wonder if CB and DJE had any say in the changes, 11:57:35 06/06/05 Mon

Does anybody else want to get up and to a Harmy jig over Webb in the Trash!!!! What were the writers thinking cutting that out? That's a crucial tidbit of information... to understand that Mac had truly 'thrown webb away' before any mention of the H/M relationship or future.... Ghees.... (NT) -- Chris K - who wishes she had time to do this with all eps from all 10 seasons....but has to go to work instead.... whaaaa, 10:58:55 06/06/05 Mon

I don't know after H&FII and 4% I think we know she was over him. I'm glad they didn't mention him to me he was never that important. (NT) -- Hope, 11:54:16 06/06/05 Mon

I never had a doubt that she was "over" Webb--what there was to BE over, since once she thought about it w/o the PTSD baggage IMO she realized it was a relationship borne not out of emotional connection but shared trauma. It would have been a cute scene just the same to see her (and/or Harm for that matter) cleaning out their past life/lives. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^<, 12:07:13 06/06/05 Mon

I was kinda surprised she still had the picture. I thought she would have deep-sixed it last fall when he came back from the dead. (NT) -- NanaSue, 16:40:17 06/06/05 Mon

Thank you so much TQ!!! Yes, the version we got was the best. But it also makes me angrier that with all the versions, you'd think they could have planned for a real show finale with a party or frocking scene and more flashbacks. If they bother to write all those endings, why not one with just another scene in case the show got cancelled. (NT) -- judi, 11:55:23 06/06/05 Mon

I agree, we could have used more "stuff" than what we got. Never mind the "Vic echoing Harm" story, we could have done w.o that and just had 40 minutes of the DD making out then the bar scene for the coin flip, lol! (NT) -- CM>^.,.^<, 12:17:44 06/06/05 Mon

I agree, they had enough time and material to delete the vic-head scenes. I'm glad the original conversation in Harm's apartment was cut, terrible dialog. I'm with CM they could have been making out the entire time and then had the scene at McMurphy's. Did anyone else notice that Harm's thumb moved up to touch the underside of her breast right before she snuggled into him and they did the coin toss? I pointed that out to a few people at the Wench Out on Saturday. When the scene is slowed down there's no doubt what is happening. I'll take what we can get if it involves a scene like that. (NT) -- Theresa, 13:31:58 06/06/05 Mon

Theresa, I noticed the breast thing. But not before having watched the scene for who knows how many times:-) I just sort of thought it was accidental, but we'll never know will we? (insert evil grin) THAT should have been in the old scripts, lol (NT) -- Ava, 17:46:47 06/06/05 Mon

I haven't finished looking at all the notes.. I'm still only half way through post 1.. but it looks already with the scenes not filmed - the shortened harriet bud conversation - the missing Bud and Harm at his apartment scene... the missing upcoming party scene.... It doesn't feel like the short conversation at Mac's apartment took up the same amount of air time... (NT) -- Chris K - who really does wish CBS had told them before they filmed any of the last ep so they could have cut ALL of vukovic out...., 13:08:06 06/06/05 Mon

Alleluia for the ending that we got.What we got was really gooood but I love to see those other versions on DVD. Now if Harm loves red then so will I.LOLOL! Its comforting to know that they really love each other for 9 years and new beginnings.Thanks a lot TQ. (NT) -- NevadaGH, 13:25:00 06/06/05 Mon

As you already know, ITA with you on this Judi. Yucko should have been TAD on this one - totally out of the story. DPB thought JAG could just go on without his daily input, and maybe he should have just had no input whatsoever and left someone else totally in charge, because it was obvious to most viewers that the show didn't work well with more than one chief. Plus, DPB's anger at DJE after the S8 negotiations, and his unhappiness at CB's pregnancy I think showed in the story lines. (NT) -- NanaSue, 13:29:50 06/06/05 Mon

Thank you, Tulip Queen!!! That was so much fun to read. I enjoyed reading every bit of it! (NT) -- manette, 15:48:11 06/06/05 Mon

Thank you, thank you, thank you. After I saw the "tease" on ET I wondered what the different endings were. Great Job. Now we know. But I, like so many others feel we got the best version but were still short changed. Needed 2 hours with lots of scenes from all episodes. I had never thought about the point of view that the last year was sort of DB's payback but you may be correct. Anyway JAG deserved better from CBS. After all it gave them 9 years of great ratings. And we, the fans diserved better. (NT) -- JBgirlygirl, 16:06:26 06/06/05 Mon

Thank you, thank you, thank you. After I saw the "tease" on ET I wondered what the different endings were. Great Job. Now we know. But I, like so many others feel we got the best version but were still short changed. Needed 2 hours with lots of scenes from all episodes. I had never thought about the point of view that the last year was sort of DB's payback but you may be correct. Anyway JAG deserved better from CBS. After all it gave them 9 years of great ratings. And we, the fans diserved better. (NT) -- JBgirlygirl, 16:07:04 06/06/05 Mon

Thank you so much for typing all of this out TQ-- my schedule wouldn't let me be as thorough! :) (NT) -- Elizabeth, 17:09:35 06/06/05 Mon

Eek! That wasn't all I typed. Anywho . . . It was neat to see what the different revisions and endings held (my script didn't contain revisions). I think I have to say that I like the ending we got the best. Once again, thanks! (NT) -- Elizabeth, 17:18:30 06/06/05 Mon

We definitely got the best ending! The scene WE saw with Mac and Vukovic was great! Imagine if we had seen her smile at him instead! No matter how the ep had ended, that would have left a sour taste in my mouth. The ring thing was cute, but everything before that was wrong. And the seducing part, even though I'm sure that would have inspired a lot of fanfics, it wouldn't have brought closure. Imagine the ep without the final kisses, the ones we (and Harm and Mac) have been waiting for, for years!! Thank you DPB for doing right by the fans, it brought happiness to this little shipper-heart. (NT) -- Ava, 18:02:51 06/06/05 Mon

Just wanted to add that the above was my opinion, and that I wasn't trying to speak for anyone but myself :-) (NT) -- Ava, miss-yaps-alot, 18:05:01 06/06/05 Mon

Don't thank DPB. I have read that Paramount told him that he better end JAG right with Harm&Mac together or he can forget DVDs. (NT) -- McMax, 21:34:51 06/06/05 Mon

Hmmm, interesting. Will send my thanx to Paramount instead then;-) (NT) -- Ava, 07:33:17 06/07/05 Tue

Out of all of that (whew! What a great job), I agree we got the best of what was offered. At least we don't have to wonder if Harm made it to Mac's apartment. Still, would like to have seen Webb in the trash! (NT) -- psych9, 20:13:00 06/06/05 Mon

Thank God we got the version we did. I don't care for the others. I would have been left with a bad taste in my mouth (simliar to the one since Paraguay). (NT) -- LisaJAG, 20:17:51 06/06/05 Mon

I agree that we got the best ending! But the "beginning" thing would have been nice. I have to say that I am glad they redid the "Bud & Harriet" stuff. I didn't like they way they had originally written it at all! (NT) -- JAG Junkie, 21:32:43 06/06/05 Mon

My wrists and hands hurt just thinking about how much typing this was. Thank you TQ! I think we got the best ending. Perhaps all the scenes with Vic were part of a contractual thing--he had to be in so many minutes of it due to acting contracts. I'm just guessing! (NT) -- PB, 22:00:06 06/06/05 Mon

Well here I am chiming in late...Thanks TQ, this makes me very thankful for the ending we got. I actually like it the best! I have a comment about the direction of the show after season 8. So CB got pregnant...how many actresses are pregnant during a show's run? LOTS of them. Why does that mean the storyline had to take a 180? Sure plans may have needed to be delayed or altered in some way but the whole direction of the show seemed to fall apart after that. Maybe HAE's renegotiations also contributed but to spite the show seems so immature. Like I said once before, maybe one day well get a true hollywood story. I'm just glad it ended the way it did...maybe all's well that ends well.(NT)--JO (still around lurking every day and posting about once a full moon!), 22:53:36 06/06/05 Mon

Thanks TQ. Seeing the different script versions & noticing some were awkward makes it obvious screen-writing isn't easy. Dialogue has to stay "in character", flow like normal conversation, fit context, etc, etc. OR ELSE, fans like us will pick it to pieces! I agree with those who think the ending we saw was the best! (NT) -- sg, 02:03:13 06/07/05 Tue

Sorry for the two post earlier. Don't know what happened. I would have liked to have heard from some of the cast like they did on Opra with the other shows so we could find out the real stories of what went on especially the last season. I have a feeling there was some good stuff going on because in one cut you see DJE telling I am presuming the writers that they can do better than that. I think it's on the Cathrine Cam video. But after seeing the other endings I am happy with the one we got. (NT) -- JBgirlygirl, 07:56:51 06/07/05 Tue

A big THANK YOU to TQ! Now that I know the alternatives, I'm happy with the way the show ended. I think the finale we got was the most "in character" for H&M. In the "ring" ending, I liked most of it except for the part where it's Mac that makes Harm go outside. If Harm wanted to present the ring he should be the one to want to take the convo outside of McMurphy's. I also didn't like that it seemed that Harm had nothing left to say....and that Mac seemed frustrated by his nonchalance. The "sexy" ending would have been fun to watch but I'd hate it if that's where we left off with their relationship....five hours to have HMS then good bye, we'll see what happens. So my thoughts that one of the other endings alluded to on ET could have been better can RIP.(NT)--Cherie (I can now live with getting an ending that was satisfying, but not one that we deserved.), 12:49:50 06/07/05 Tue

Thank-you so muchTQ, I really liked being able to read what the other scenes would have been like.........and I think we were given the best version. (NT) -- Cokie, 14:38:16 06/07/05 Tue

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