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Date Posted: 17:06:46 07/30/05 Sat
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: Theresa 's message, "Harm's words in the finale. . .Inside" on 16:57:22 07/30/05 Sat

Maybe the travel and the intensity of their work, whether it be for a week or a TAD, and the long days wouldn't help any marriage. At this point they don't want to be away from each other. One could continue with their career, the other could still work but be there at all times. They finally want a life together not a life together but apart because of work. (NT) -- Boston Tiger, 15:13:21 07/22/05 Fri

I'm wondering if that gorilla comment is tied to Mac's comment at the taxi stand about "both of us wanting to be on top". DPB had promised that we would know "exactly" why they had never gotten together, but most of us were still scratching our heads at the end of that episode. So my guess is that, since they both agreed to the coin toss, there has been something at the root of their relationship that was competitive (from my POV, I saw Mac as more competitive, but others see it differently) that made them believe that one of them walking away from the military was the only way. JMO (NT) -- TH, 15:21:51 07/22/05 Fri

We DID know why they weren't together; the 500 pound gorilla, AKA DPB. He's the ONLY reason they were ever apart. (NT) -- David, 16:37:56 07/22/05 Fri

But that's not what we're looking at David. We're talking about the characters, not the real life intentions of the people writing their lines. Just objectively looking at the characters actions on screen and what kind of people they grew to be on screen. I'm wondering why they would automatically believe that one or the both of them would have to quit the military if they got married. I'm also wondering why others believe that Harm wouldn't be happy in anything but the Navy, when he's been willing to give it up for family before. (NT) -- Theresa, 16:48:57 07/22/05 Fri

Well, one of the had to quit or one would be in SD and One would be in London. I don't think they quit because they couldn't BOTH be in the military. One of them quit because they wanted to be together and they were unwilling to wait. Nothing fancy or deep happened there. (NT) -- David, 16:55:00 07/22/05 Fri

Mac did say that if they got married one of them would have to give up their Navy careers. That was always something that was understood between them. And Harm confirmed that with his comment that for the marriage to be successful one of them would have to resign their commission. I'm wondering why they couldn't have gone to reserve status, or found another post closer to whichever one accepted the promotion. Like they did in "What If" (NT) -- Theresa, 17:06:45 07/22/05 Fri

You can't transfer into the Navy Reserve from active duty if you're above the rank of Lt. Commander. Therefore, neither Harm nor Mac and "reserve" t heir commission--they have to resign. (NT) -- abrah, 19:10:31 07/22/05 Fri

Oh okay. Thanks for the info. It weeds out that possibility. (NT) -- Theresa, 19:23:13 07/22/05 Fri

I agree, David. They wanted to be together and didn't want the complications that arise when two people are in the service. Being a reservist is no picnic either, with drilling and the possibility of being deployed at a moment's notice. Needs of the service always come first, and there would never be a guarantee that they could be billeted close enough to each other for their comfort. (NT) -- Barbie, 17:31:08 07/22/05 Fri

Actually, at those ranks it's a virtual guarantee they would never be assigned near each other. DC was probably the one place (between JAGHQ and Fort Fumble) that they had a snowballs chance in h#ll of it. Remember, the post not only has to EXIST, it has to be AVAILABLE. The best most spouses can do at field grade rank (04-06) is to be within weekend driving distance ( say, 4-8 hours). I know a lot of people who weekended at hotels equally distant from each, ie, meeting halfway. Extra tough when you have kids. As for reserves, what abrah says is true, BUT you can get a waiver for just about anything if they want you badly enough. Since we had Harm the jet flying lawyer, that isn't even a stretch. IMHO, the gorrilla was a combination of things. The reality of them never being able to be assigned near each other is one--remember as rank heavy JAG's they have far fewer slots available than even regular line officers. Their competitive natures is two--and I think that was equally distributed between them. They were both plenty competitive. Three, they want kids. Even without Mac's endo issue, at 37/8, the rate of conception isn't what it is at a younger age. Couple that with only seeing each other occassionally, and the chances go from slim to too small to messure. Since we're talking about kids, toss in Mattie. Until she's as good as she's going to get after the accident (which could be up to a couple of years) she needs a parent around most of the time. With a two career couple, both in demanding jobs that could send them away at the drop of a hat, it would be difficult to impossible. IMHO, Harm would have had a very difficult time single parenting Mattie now. Four is need. They both 'need' each other. I don't mean that in a sexual way. Harm and Mac, even when they have been on the outs, have always been connected. Not all couples, even married ones, are as emotionally dependant on each other as they were. Even with long distance communication being so much better than it was, that would be an issue too. The easy way to sum it up was the 500 pound gorilla, meaning careers, but so much more.(NT)-- CM>^.,.^<, 08:43:19 07/23/05 Sat

Thanks CM, great answers, and it makes perfect sense. The way it played out, it's clear they want children and a life together (as David and others have said) without the complications. But it wasn't just a reaction to the current situation, they knew these things before hand, and *always* planned on one or the both of them leaving the service if they ever got married. Which is why, in "my little corner of the world" they both retired. (NT)-- Theresa, 11:27:00 07/23/05 Sat

I remember reading a fanfic that addressed Harm leaving and doing something else in the law field. It was a believable story and Harm was very happy. Being the dinosaur that I am, I do believe that some marriages just are not cut out to be two person high-powered career marriages. One person needs to be more flexible and available especially when there are children. There are issues of emotional support that come into play. And most importantly, there can't be any resentment on either person's part as to the role they play in the marriage. I think Harm recognises this about them. And, being the guy he is it doesn't matter to him which of them takes which role as long as he can have Mac and Mattie. He's finally wise enough to recognise that there are things in life more important than career.(NT) -- cheriejagman, 16:04:47 07/22/05 Fri

ITA with you, cheri. It IS important for the one who "gives up" not to have their identity tied up in their job. Also for the one who keeps theirs to be willing to "give" in other ways. Sometimes they need acknowlege the other person made a big sacrifice that they didn't. IMO that's what was alluded to in WI. Mac was forced to give up a "meaningful" job, Harm went along as if life was still hunkydory. Some say marrige is 50/50. I've never believed that. In my professional career I seldom found it so. Sometimes it's 99/1 in one direction. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^< As long as it's not the same person always doing the giving in, it usually works out., 09:00:10 07/23/05 Sat

Don't worry Theresa... Harm won the toss, they're in London and they're happy. The Marines wasn't Mac's whole life either. (NT) -- HiG, 17:40:40 07/22/05 Fri

If that's how it happened in your little corner of the world, then that's cool. In my corner, neither of them stayed in. But that still doesn't answer why one of them had to quit completely before they could get married. (NT) -- Theresa, 18:07:51 07/22/05 Fri

I still don't think either one HAD to quit. They did it so they could be together without having to wait for however how long until they were stationed near each other. They had both been assigned to post on oposite sides of the world; they knew that if they wanted to be together NOW one of them had to quit. I think you are making simple things to complicated *wink* (NT) -- David, 18:10:32 07/22/05 Fri

Thersa, I can't answer that question because I honestly don't have an answer here in my "little corner of the world"...lol. But back to Mac.... do you think the military was all Mac had? Do you think Harm thought it was all she had? (NT) -- HiG, 18:46:51 07/22/05 Fri

No, I don't think the military was all she had. They both had people in their lives. We saw both of them yearning for a family of their own. I think there were goals and dreams in both of their lives that held equal or greater value than the military. I don't think Harm believed the military was all she had, because the way I see Harm, if he thought the military was all Mac had, he would not have wanted her to give it up, as that would be stripping her of everything important to her. That's not how it happened, so I'm guessing Harm didn't see it that way. (NT) -- Theresa, 19:07:42 07/22/05 Fri

Thinking more about it now, I wonder if Harm always thought that it wouldn't work between them if they both stayed in the military. In his daydream in "What If" Mac was certainly bitter about getting the short end of the stick (Definitely NO pun intended) when they got married, even to the point of ending up in divorce (or near divorce). Hmmm...just some thoughts. (NT) -- Theresa - who thinks all this winking around here is suspect. Are people developing ticks? ;-), 18:30:27 07/22/05 Fri

Maybe that was it, if one of them had to turn down their new command and settle for something else just to be together that person may become bitter or resent the other who is doing well. They might have had to take a job that had no potential for promotion or that was not challenging. So to then watch the other excel and enjoy what they are doing would be hard. By resigning and looking for something that fits them and also allows them to move if the one that stays in gets transferred would be better. (NT) -- Hope - who just got home from a very long day at work, 20:52:01 07/22/05 Fri

I think they just wanted to be together & have a somewhat normal home life. My husband travels for work & I'm a stay at home mom. It makes things less crazy to only juggle 1 work schedule. Maybe they thought they'd waited long enough to have a happy home life (NT) -- Angela S, 22:18:06 07/22/05 Fri

Angela I agree with you. If they were both young and starting out, it would be different. But they are both mature, and don't have any time to waste. Family is going to happen now or never. Also, because they let fate decide, it not only took away resentment from the one who would have sacrificed, it took away the guilt from the one who didn't. For example, let's say Mac said, "I'll give up my career happily," then she would feel she had made the sacrifice. And even if she never felt resentful, Harm might have felt guilty. And the same the other way around. But either way, they need to be together wherever they are, at their age particularly. I know what it's like to have my husband away from home for weeks on end. It was awful when we were first married. (NT) -- Cece., 00:35:12 07/23/05 Sat

I agree too - - I guess that's what I was trying to say (though not as well) above. Their priorities have changed - - finally! (NT) -- cheriejagman, 01:07:10 07/23/05 Sat

I concur Cece and Angela.Its how I see it with them.Their careers are no longer their first priorities. (NT) -- T2, 17:04:42 07/23/05 Sat

I think that that line was written like that because the writers needed a reason as to why Mac and Harm weren't together. Because if you think about it they could have transferred anywhere anytime.... does this make sense... (NT) -- kd, 02:25:31 07/23/05 Sat

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