| Subject: Re: fundamentalism is scary |
Author:
Astrid
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Date Posted: 17:35:35 07/10/02 Wed
In reply to:
Raisinmom
's message, "Re: fundamentalism is scary" on 16:35:08 07/10/02 Wed
>So what if it's anti-semitic? (I'm not entirely sure
>I'd even agree with that assessment; I don't consider
>it anti-semitic for a Christian to say that a Jew
>can't go to heaven because she hasn't accepted Jesus
>as the Messiah. That's just part of the faith, not a
>hatred of Jews qua Jews -- after all, that Christian
>would also say that a Muslim can't go to heaven.) As
>I noted before, I really don't give a rat's ass why
>they support Israel. And I don't see that it's
>"giving power" to the fundamentalists to take the
>support -- it's not like Zionists are going to put
>them in the Knesset. How are the fundamentalists
>acquiring power? All that's happening is they are
>using their political leverage and money to support
>Israel. I haven't seen Israel doing a hell of a lot
>in return. And I doubt the fundamentalists even
>*expect* anything in return -- they know Jews are
>taking the help solely for their own ends, just as the
>fundamentalists are giving the help solely for their
>own ends. What the fundamentalists' end goal is
>matters very little to Jews at least in part because
>Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah and will
>return and convert them all, so it's kind of a big
>game of chicken. It's not exactly a clear and present
>threat ("Oh no, we can't form Israel because then
>we'll be sitting ducks for the Messiah!") -- if the
>Jews are wrong about that one, well, so be it, I guess
>the Christians will have the last laugh at the
>Apocalypse. Until then, the Jews have Israel.
Ok, we'll have to disagree. I hear what you are saying too, and as a pragmatist I really relate, but I also think it's a valid criticism for Fisk to make (on both sides--directed toward Israel and the Christian groups doing fundraising).
>I think my first posting laid out my reasons. I don't
>see any evidence from this article that he's an
>anti-semite.
Thanks for clarifying that point.
>Astrid, this last sentence strikes me as so much empty
>rhetoric. The guy who assassinated Rabin was
>anti-peace, anti-dove -- but anti-Israel? No.
>Indeed, he thought he was insuring Israel's survival.
>It's a big, long stretch to say that hawks cannot be
>considered pro-Israel. Did Rabin's death harm the
>chances for peace and thus, indirectly, the chances of
>Israel's survival? Maybe. I suspect this is what you
>meant, but it's not what you wrote.
That's exactly what I mean. I know that if I lived with the daily horrors of this situation I would be blinded by rage and hatred, too--I don't pretend that I'm any better than the parties involved. But it just seems so obvious to me that aggression breeds aggression. We can't look at Palestinians who are raising their children to hate Jews and practice killing them and shake our heads and say, what barbarians they are. They are a people in a context of oppression. Now we can spread the blame around--point fingers at Arafat, other Arab states, the US or Israel, etc.--but the point is that aggression is unproductive. Peace will only come when people get fed up with war and try something new. And that is going to take a long time at this point.
Astrid
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