| Subject: Re: fundamentalism is scary |
Author:
Raisinmom
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Date Posted: 16:35:08 07/10/02 Wed
In reply to:
Astrid
's message, "Re: fundamentalism is scary" on 11:57:10 07/10/02 Wed
>I DO have an issue with that
>person supporting a Jewish state in order to round all
>the Jews up in the Holy Land so that Christ can return
>and convert them all. I'm sorry, I try to be
>open-minded about religious beliefs, but this is
>absolutely anti-Semitic and I think that Jews who
>support this source of revenue need to be wary of who
>they are giving power to.
So what if it's anti-semitic? (I'm not entirely sure I'd even agree with that assessment; I don't consider it anti-semitic for a Christian to say that a Jew can't go to heaven because she hasn't accepted Jesus as the Messiah. That's just part of the faith, not a hatred of Jews qua Jews -- after all, that Christian would also say that a Muslim can't go to heaven.) As I noted before, I really don't give a rat's ass why they support Israel. And I don't see that it's "giving power" to the fundamentalists to take the support -- it's not like Zionists are going to put them in the Knesset. How are the fundamentalists acquiring power? All that's happening is they are using their political leverage and money to support Israel. I haven't seen Israel doing a hell of a lot in return. And I doubt the fundamentalists even *expect* anything in return -- they know Jews are taking the help solely for their own ends, just as the fundamentalists are giving the help solely for their own ends. What the fundamentalists' end goal is matters very little to Jews at least in part because Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah and will return and convert them all, so it's kind of a big game of chicken. It's not exactly a clear and present threat ("Oh no, we can't form Israel because then we'll be sitting ducks for the Messiah!") -- if the Jews are wrong about that one, well, so be it, I guess the Christians will have the last laugh at the Apocalypse. Until then, the Jews have Israel.
>I was curious as to why you'd label Fisk
>"anti-Israel". Were you suggesting that he was a
>bigot at heart, or simply observing that he disagreed
>with the status quo in Israel in 2002?
>
I think my first posting laid out my reasons. I don't see any evidence from this article that he's an anti-semite.
>Because IME, most people support there being a state
>of Israel. Many also believe that the Palestinians
>have a right to coexist or exist alongside that state
>(obviously how we peacefully do this is the question
>that nobody has yet to solve). But right now, I think
>that a lot of people who support racial, religious and
>political equality believe that the Sharon government
>is NOT behaving as a democratic, law-abiding state,
>but is resembling more a military state or one that
>shuns justice for revenge.
>Sharon is considered by many in the world to be a war
>criminal. So being anti-Sharon isn't the same as
>being anti-Israel.
>
Well, that's all fine. I disagree with some of it -- sure there should be a Palestinian state in peaceful coexistence with Israel (which would of course require the other Arab nations to declare peace too) -- but I don't consider Sharon to be a war criminal. If others disagree, fine. And being anti-Sharon isn't necessarily being anti-Israel, but here again, some anti-Sharon sentiment cloaks anti-Israel sentiment.
>In fact, I would claim that those
>who assassinated Rabin were the ones who are
>ultimately anti-Israel.
Astrid, this last sentence strikes me as so much empty rhetoric. The guy who assassinated Rabin was anti-peace, anti-dove -- but anti-Israel? No. Indeed, he thought he was insuring Israel's survival. It's a big, long stretch to say that hawks cannot be considered pro-Israel. Did Rabin's death harm the chances for peace and thus, indirectly, the chances of Israel's survival? Maybe. I suspect this is what you meant, but it's not what you wrote.
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