| Subject: Re: Revised Dominion vs Empire |
Author:
capn hayes
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Date Posted: 02:13:32 09/05/02 Thu
Author Host/IP: NoHost/207.14.48.2
In reply to:
Warspite
's message, "Re: Revised Dominion vs Empire" on 15:18:23 09/04/02 Wed
>>>>I must say that the Empire would be the more likely
>>>>victors. The fighters may be unshielded but the
>>>>original novelization suggested that X-wings and the
>>>>Falcon could achieve near light speeds very easily,
>>>>and TIEs are much faster than X-wings.
>>>
>>>If this is the "Wedge tore out of the Death Star"
>>>quote, I'm going to scream! That has been shown to be
>>>wrong wrong WRONG so many times it's just not funny
>>>anymore. If you're not refering to that quote, please
>>>excuse my rant! :)
>>
>>You know I'm really gettting sick of hearing all about
>>how fast Trek ships can go in sublight. All you ever
>>hear is .32c this or they covered five trillion klicks
>>in 6 seconds at 1/4 impulse! BUT trek ships DO NOT I
>>reapeat DO NOT go any faster "on screen" then star
>>wars ships go. Just because they don't say how fast in
>>percentages of the speed of light they go, or the
>>distances covered in star wars movies, you all base
>>their speeds on just what you see in the movies. While
>>that is a fair way to judge things it should work for
>>trek also.
>
>It does work the same for both sides. There are things
>in Wars that really make no sense, but we accept them
>because they DID happen. Similarly, you may not like
>the speeds stated in Trek, but if they are stated, and
>not contradicted, then they did happen. An exmaple is
>the TNG:Suspicisons example. There are NO visuals,
>only dialogue, so we accept the dialogue as correct.
>
>>That goes for distances also. In all the
>>big battles on [DS9] that I ever saw like "Sacrifice
>>of Angels" none of the ships did any "Warp strafing".
>
>That is true. However, that might be explainable (is
>that a word?) when you consider detrimental effects of
>planetary systems on warp, and the need to capture
>rather than destroy the station.
>
>>And the distances could be measured in meters and
>>kilometers not thousands or tens of thousands of
>>kilometers. And Defiant was racing through the
>>battlefield not at .92c but what looked like around
>>maybe 500 mph!
>
>I think if you do the calcs it would turn out to be
>rather more than 500mph. The Romulan ships are over
>1.2km long, and the Defiant was passing them in a
>second or so. That would give them a speed in the
>4,320km/h range (2,700mph). However, I take your
>point. Of course, what we don't know is the speed that
>the two forces were already traveling relative to a
>third point. They could have been tearing along at
>.7c, but still be at 3,600km/h relative to each other.
>That aside, few battles seen in Sci-Fi actually make
>sense. Those on screen are only there as eye-candy, to
>represent the action in an entertaining way. If they
>were really represented correctly, we probably
>wouldn't see ships, battles or anything. Its the same
>thing as hearing the sound of a turbolaser streaking
>through space. I can't really happen, but we accept it
>anyway (and try not to think about it too much!).
>
>>Captain Sisko did order maximum impulse
>>as they tore through the enemies lines. Now watching
>>that battle unfold reminded me of ROTJ which the ships
>>were flying around at about the same speeds (on
>>screen)! So my point to all this is maybe, 1 Warp
>>Straffing tactics wouldn't work in a big fleet battle
>>and two atleast onscreen trek and wars dhips travel
>>around at close to the same speeds. 2 saying trek
>>ships are so much faster than starwars ships just
>>because dialog on the show backs it up, and does not
>>in the movies is fucked up.
>
>Unfortunately that is exactly how the debate works.
>Should visuals override dialogue is an ongoing debate?
>It doesn't actually matter, since we have examples
>from trek wherre there are no visuals but there is
>dialogue and the times match the action. I know it can
>be annoying, but it is no less annoying for the trek
>side when they have scraps of dialogue thrown in their
>face as gospel fact. It's something both sides have to
>live with. they like it when it is good for them, and
>hate it when the tables turn. :)
>
>>Enterprise" or any of the big battle episodes from
>>trek pay attention to how fast the ships are moving.
>>Don't listen to dialog (infact turn mute the TV). Then
>>pop in any Star Wars film and watch one of their
>>battles. Then compare them. Just on what was seen on
>>screen not heard! You will see both apear to be the
>>same. By that reasoning we might accept that for the
>>most part that just because it isn't said how fast
>>they go in star wars that they can't match Star Trek
>>for speed.
>
>To an extent I agree with your sentiments, though you
>are never going to get either side to give up their
>dialogue. And really, they shouldn't, since the
>dialogue forms the basis for large parts of the show.
>Neither show is perfect, and the visuals are really
>just a representation of the story in a format that is
>entertaining for the audience.
You are right again Warspite, curses! In the imortal words of Homer Simpson "DOUGH!" Thet is wghat makes debating this stuff so much fun. Getting a different perspective on things. I do honestly think that speeds and ranges are comparable though. Simply because In real life planets move at a realatively fast orbital speed, to be able to travel back and forth between them any ship would need extraordinary sublight acceleration especialy being able to travel to outer limits of a system (earth for example) in a day or two. So both sides should to agree to that atleast. And It has never really been stated "on screen" in a Wars film what maximum range is for Imperial Star Destroyers. The only example was in ANH during the little chase with Millennium Falcon and the TIE. But Solo was firing from the cockpit and knowing how "wiley" TIE's are maybe he wanted to get him in to point blank range before taking a shot? Their speed could have been in % lightspeed range but realative to each other not that fast. Also they had to slow down because thry were heading for the Death Star. Solo not wanting to overshoot the TIE but stay with him had to match his Manuvers and slow with him.
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