| Subject: FUN! |
Author:
Sara
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Date Posted: 10:03:49 08/03/04 Tue
In reply to:
Kiersten
's message, "Spoilers!!! (I'll mark where they are if you wanna read)" on 13:46:44 08/02/04 Mon
How fun to disagree!!!
"First, the dialogue." I have to agree that Sigourney Weaver seemed a little at odds with the words but no matter how much time passes in a place, you may never get the dialect. My grandmother lived in England until she was 20, moved to the US and lived out the rest of her life here and never got rid of her accent or lost those british phrases we all love. It probably WAS a stretch to them to speak that way. I enjoyed it as clues to the fact that they weren't really in the 1800s like the child's gravestone at the beginning said, that it was a clue that they were really in the modern times and the towns they spoke of were modern. I never noticed any problem with language with the younger generation, just the older ones, and I think this was the point. Blame the actors if you didn't like the way it was pulled off.
"Like the whole thing between Alice Hunt (Sigourney
>Weaver) and Edward Walker (William Hurt)" The whole point of their village was to maintain innocence and Walker would not compromise the innocence of the village by giving in to urges, which were clearly there, more than once. This would have been hypocritical and he probably knew this. They had those little boxes with their past lives/sins, etc. in them because they were trying so hard to remember what they were living this way of life for, so much so that they would allow 7 year old children to die of disease instead of going back to the modern world to receive medicine. Maintain purity and innocence at any cost. Thatwas their choice. Interestingly enough, I think the sad thing about this movie was the lack of agency. Sort of a Big Brother thing. The younger generation was not given an opportunity to choose whether or not they wanted to live that way of life. But which life would they have chosen if they could? I believe Ivy is the one who clearly has a choice whether or not to continue this way of life. She even said to the Ranger Guy that he was kinder than she expected, and therefore, she may think the towns are not all that bad and may choose to end the way of life, expose the elders, etc. That's her choice and we don't get to see what happens, we just know that the Elders will probably continue it as long as they can.
"what was the deal with Noah?" One word...deranged. I never ever got the idea that he was an elder. He was the same age as Ivy and Lucius, hence the games and races at the beginning. People with Mental Illnesses fluctuate between good and evil very quickly and if you've ever known anyone with a mental illness, you will know that even if they are feeling fear, it is an elevated emotion and will cause them to get excited, even clap and giggle. Walker says that there was an elder who was skinning the animals but never refers to it as Noah. Remember what the elders gave up to join this way of life and what they lost before. If they truly lived in fear of modern life, they would use all means necessary to protect their children, even fear. He wasn't the rogue. The only thing with Noah was that he was a simpleton who was deranged and when he found out that his closest friend, and a girl he loved, was getting married, he was upset by this. Thus his extreme reactions. Anger, which led to hurting and trying to kill Lucius. Then, when Ivy went for something to heal Lucius, showing her love for him, he snapped and we don't know if he would have killed her in the woods or just scared her. He was NUTS! Plain and simple.
I don't think his parents ever thought that he would actually find the suits and do something with them. If he was an elder, he would've been able to get a suit either way. It was a matter of finding a place to put a suit and he happened to find it. I know several parents who think everything their children do is great or ok and ignore when bad things happen and if the child shows signs of mental illness, than the bad things they do may be ignored even more and they will probably think he is too simple to find the suit and do anything with it.
">Next, does Shyamalan really expect me to believe that
>this little experiment could have lasted for this
>long?" OK....There is a show on the WB, I think, now about a bunch of Amish Kids who have the choice to live in LA and live a "modern" life. The last episode I saw, they were pretty upset by the things they saw the other kids doing. If a child grows up in an environment, they may be curious but may also just accept things the way they are. Remember, at the beginning they said that the 'ones they don't speak of' hadn't come in many years. The kids knew they were there and sure it was scary but in that innocent environment, they weren't gonna push it. Kids nowadays would with all the scary moveies and tv shows, etc. But they were raised here and this was their home. Why push it? I agree that eventually they would want to venture out, i.e. Lucius evn wanted to, but this was still a young community and they were the first generationto be raised there. It's obvious that eventually it would probably dissolve, but the elders wanted to protect their families as long as possible. I would do anything to protect the innocence of my little guy. It was no different.
"she doesn't know it was Noah". She didn't. We were made to think that they may have been real as well, by the voice over referring back to the history books. I think even her father was trying to instill a "healthy" fear in her so she would come home, sad as that is. All she knows is that something is chasing her and she wants to get rid of it. I think she is smart enough to figure out that it was Noah that she killed, maybe not at first but eventually, and maybe she would be sad by it, but it was self defense and She didn't know it was him at the time, and she may never know!
" Is that Hypocrisy I see at the door?" Yes. But hypocracy for the sake of maintaining their way of life. And besides. It was an ACCident. Noah attacking Lucius was a CRIME.
Noah tried to kill Lucious.
"The very thing they were trying to prevent is
>happening." That's the point. Can this life go on? We both agree probably not but it sure makes for a great discussion!! :) And a really thought provoking movie.
I think he was just trying to write a good story and if anything to acknowledge that you can't take people's agency away from them. It's about agency. We aren't given a clear idea of whether or not or how long the way of life will continue, just that the elders will try to.
"So am I
>supposed to believe that Shyamalan really thought that
>these simpler times were better for us to live in?" No it's not about that, it the idea of making people live a certain way because you think it's better for them. We could go into a long political schpeel here about George W. Bush in Iraq, etc. But I don't think that was his point either!!
She didn't know it was Noah, if she did she would have probably just confronted him, she clearly had some power over him. And it's not like she could see him!
>"The relationships at play between Noah, Ivy, and
>Lucius were interesting and I wish that Shyamalan had
>decided if he wanted to make a dark romance or a
>suspense. Because to me, he seems to get lost inside
>his genre twisting and as a result neither is fully
>played out." Have you seen Signs? The aliens made it hoaky for me. Yet it was supposed to be a religious movie with religious undertones? It's just his style and some don't like it but I love it. He can use suspense all he wants to get me to think. And the death of Noah in the woods added a suspenseful twist but also was necessary to move the plot along...he had to be punished and why not make it an accident instead of making them hypocritical and be cruel to him. Is that clear? He hurt Lucius, that was a crime. He had to be punished, and now that he is gone, he has given them an open to continue their way of life and not have to punish him. Fair or not, that's the way it is. Best to mkae the most of it.
Anyhow....my 2...no...200 cents!!! :)
He was just trying to write a good movie! :)
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