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Date Posted: 9/03/09 1:25:40pm
Author: Peter Eveleigh
Subject: exodus
In reply to: Tom 's message, "Re: self-interested evangelism - is it really "of God"?" on 8/03/09 7:48:27pm

>I disagree. I know many people who have left - some go
>on a less regular basis [like myself], others go to
>local churches and others don't go to church at all. I
>think it's a no-brainer that the JA would prefer to
>keep people so sure, there may be a reluctance. The
>fact is - I have lost many good friends and I suppose
>I was reluctant to lose them having been so actively
>involved in their lives. On the flip side however, I
>would never criticise them for going to another church.

There was a mass-exodus in the 1990s, when countless people I had known as celibates left and got married. There was a general loosening of borders.

I am not sure what caused the change in stress put on membership, but I imagine that contact with other churches made it less fashionable for the old emphasis on the "we are it" attitude which made it easier to hold people through guilt and fear.

Once people saw other churches they must have been encouraged to think that it was possible to be an active Christian without having to submit every part of your life to elders.

I imagine that the various levels of membership in the JA (where a looser membership had ONLY been possible in the past if a member was married to a non-believer) came about because it was the only way to hold on to people who would otherwise leave altogether.

And all of the above will have come about because of the humiliation the JA suffered when, uniquely, they were thrown out of the Evangelical Alliance. ALL contact with other churches now, I believe is rooted in that event in the mid-1980s. I am cynical and having known Noel in the early days I do not believe he has so dramatically changed his spots. ALL contact with other churches, such that it is, is about cultivating an image of a church which is no longer cultic.

I have talked to people whose churches are supposedly associated with teh JA and it is pretty clear that grass-roots people-to-people contact is minimal and there is still a sense that the JA are the beneficiaries of any contact, with the JA still not recommending other churches in preference to their own.

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Replies:

People come, people go. -- Tom, 9/03/09 6:47:14pm
- the JA like others to take part in their stuff, less so the other way round -- Peter Eveleigh, 9/03/09 8:18:57pm
  - It's all the same God. -- Tom, 9/03/09 8:38:35pm
    - Re: It's all the same God. -- Peter Eveleigh, 9/03/09 8:47:28pm
      - Free to choose -- Tom, 9/03/09 8:54:20pm
        Re: Free to choose -- Peter Eveleigh, 9/03/09 9:32:20pm
        Weekend working -- Tom, 9/03/09 10:14:47pm
        Sunday a day of rest -- Peter Eveleigh, 9/03/09 11:19:17pm
        Re: Sunday a day of rest -- Tom, 9/03/09 11:46:32pm
        Re: Sunday a day of rest -- Peter Eveleigh, 10/03/09 7:32:03pm

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> >>I disagree. I know many people who have left - some go >>on a less regular basis [like myself], others go to >>local churches and others don't go to church at all. I >>think it's a no-brainer that the JA would prefer to >>keep people so sure, there may be a reluctance. The >>fact is - I have lost many good friends and I suppose >>I was reluctant to lose them having been so actively >>involved in their lives. On the flip side however, I >>would never criticise them for going to another >church. > >There was a mass-exodus in the 1990s, when countless >people I had known as celibates left and got married. >There was a general loosening of borders. > >I am not sure what caused the change in stress put on >membership, but I imagine that contact with other >churches made it less fashionable for the old emphasis >on the "we are it" attitude which made it easier to >hold people through guilt and fear. > >Once people saw other churches they must have been >encouraged to think that it was possible to be an >active Christian without having to submit every part >of your life to elders. > >I imagine that the various levels of membership in the >JA (where a looser membership had ONLY been possible >in the past if a member was married to a non-believer) >came about because it was the only way to hold on to >people who would otherwise leave altogether. > >And all of the above will have come about because of >the humiliation the JA suffered when, uniquely, they >were thrown out of the Evangelical Alliance. ALL >contact with other churches now, I believe is rooted >in that event in the mid-1980s. I am cynical and >having known Noel in the early days I do not believe >he has so dramatically changed his spots. ALL contact >with other churches, such that it is, is about >cultivating an image of a church which is no longer >cultic. > >I have talked to people whose churches are supposedly >associated with teh JA and it is pretty clear that >grass-roots people-to-people contact is minimal and >there is still a sense that the JA are the >beneficiaries of any contact, with the JA still not >recommending other churches in preference to their own.
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