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Date Posted: 11:58:54 11/23/03 Sun
Author: a kriya yogi - 26 Oct 2003
Subject: Re: Who are you following?
In reply to: Shivanath - 26 Oct 2003 's message, "Re: Who are you following?" on 11:58:09 11/23/03 Sun


"You are just attacking my choice of words rather than responding to the issue: how does one validate authenticity?"

Your choice of words only helped make clear how strange this concept is to one who was spiritually brought up in the Indian way. They have never had a way of validating authenticity except through the intuition, first-hand experience, and common sense of the devotee.

"Au Contraire, my good Kriya Yogi. Yoganandaji laid down very specific directives around who was qualified to teach Kriya yoga in the context of his work, and he discussed the observable qualities of a true Yogi."

Yes, but he didn't create a board to authenticate or arbitrate true blessings. (Yes, he did create a board for his organization, but I believe that's a different thing). He did give some the right and power to bless others with Kriya initiation. He also gave us all some advice on how to tell of someone has the Guru's grace flowing through them. The fact that he did give us such advice at least implies that his way was also the way of India- that the devotee should use their Guru-given intuition, first-hand experience, and common sense.


"Today in India, Shankaracharyas don't appoint themselves to one of the four seats based upon their intuition of a blessing, no matter how subtle or sacred that blessing may be. They are chosen."

Yes, but the Shankaracharyas (1) are more like Catholic Cardinals, in terms of making Swamis, etc. and (2) they aren't always saints- some seem far from it. They definitely don't have the full respect of all Indian devotees, and surely not the full respect of even the saints.

"Gurus in many yogic traditions often appoint a successor for their lineage. This is very common in India. So in that case, Guru is arbiter. Sometimes they leave it in a will. It is clear to all, not subject to wild imaginings of folks believing they are being guided from the beyond."

True. And look at our lineage. Lahiri Mahasaya had many great disciples, each with disciples. So did Sri Yukteswar. Now, Guruji said he was the last of the line of Gurus- but still there are several lines or families that have branched out from him that have the power, in my opinion and experience. And he did give several the right to give Kriya. One I haven't mentioned, who was very definitely outside the official SRF pale at time was Oliver Black. He gave Kriya, he was a Yogacharya, and yet he had his differences with the SRF organization that resulted in a degree of independence that some would find quite surprising.

"With respect to Kriya, it certainly is not. We are told that Lahiri sought Babaji's permission to teach. He didn't fantasize it, or intuit a blessing and then set himself up as a Kriya Guru."

True. And Guruji gave Peggy Deitz, Davis, Walters, Hamilton, and many others permission to initiate, and yes teach. I know this is open to interpretation, but as I said earlier, that's the way I see it. If you see differently, I respect that right.

I don't condone anyone just saying they have permission of Babaji. But what would you do, arrest anyone who makes that claim who isn't approved by the Grand Arbiter? (I use the term with some sarcasm, but not with any ill intent toward you!)

"Yes, I am familiar with reductio ad absurdum. The issue is and has been that authorization to be a Kriya Guru in Yoganandaji's tradition, or in the India lineages from Lahiri, is not based upon intuited or imagined blessings from departed Gurus."

That's probably true. That's why I prefer those who had the blessing of the Guru when He was alive!

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