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Subject: Sure is wrong Author: Mark7 [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 21:20:32 10/05/01 Fri In reply to: Joanne 's message, "quite honestly I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about" on 15:48:07 10/03/01 Wed I never said what they do is right, nor do I say that what Israel or the US is doing in the Middle East is in anyway justifying their attack. All I am saying is that military power alone cannot, will not and never did prevent terror. The only way to prevent terrorists is to insure an admosphere of justice and fairness for all. Muslims, Arabs, are not as different from us that you may think. If they have something to live for, they wouldn't take suicide so lightly. All I am saying is that as long as there is a substantially large population that has no possibility to better itself, there will be a large supply of angry young men who cannot value their own life and therefore cannot value anybody elses life. And we are seeing the 3rd generation of Arabs growing in Palestinian refugee camps. Their grandfathers lost the wars with Israel in 1947, 1963, or 1967, and the grandsons are still held prisoners of war, in 2001. These men have nothing to look forward to in their lives, so their lives have no values. Can anybody expect someone who doesn't value his own life to value the life of another? Also, I disagree with Bush and most of my compatriots on the issue of "they declared war on America". America declared war on Palestine 50 years ago. And we won most of the battles also. Except this last one. We say that any government who aids the terrorists is an enemy to declare war on. Well, I have news for you. We aided the killers of their children for many years. In case you haven't followed the news, just in the last months over 100 Palestian children were shot by the Israeli army. Guess who aided this army? Guess who financed it, who trained it, who armed it? We declared war on them long time ago, and I believe it is time to stop. How you stop it? You cut the aid to all in the region, starting with Israel and ending with Egipt. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Mark, Author: Joanne [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:16:31 10/07/01 Sun Mark, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts on this board. My prior knowledge of all these events was very sketchy. I'm playing catch-up now, trying to figure things out. Reading your exchanges with JeffF and all the different viewpoints on DP and elsewhere, is an awesome opportunity to learn about world events, from so many different perspectives. I understand that you feel empathy for the Palestines and others with no country, because you were a refugee. You should let down your guard more often, and let your human side show through. That explains a lot about why you feel as strongly as you do not just about Arabs, but the US involvement in places and ways which are perhaps not honourable and do not reflect what American values stand for. However, America has done so much good in the world too, they are not just power-hungry evil monsters like some would like to have everyone believe. And do you notice the change in tone on DP regarding the reasons why America was attacked? People ARE starting to think things through, and not just go with the knee-jerk reaction of 'they hate our freedoms.' You can see it for yourself. Your views are perhaps not so different from even the 'hawks' on the board. And I know that people everywhere are not so different than me, which is why it is so hideously frightening when some do things like fly airplanes into buildings on a beautiful peaceful morning, and push their religious beliefs as justification for war - it really illustrates the differences between "them" and "us", and that is scary to me. To me, it seems like not only are they angry about troops in Saudi and the whole thing about Isreal, but that they are using their collective anger to martyr themselves and achieve eternal paradise - they are exploiting Islam and Muslims, and definitely bastardizing their religion. Bin Laden himself has never wanted for anything - he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and I think his agenda is strictly his own, and not so much doing Allah's will, as he says he is doing. So I guess I'm still troubled the most about Israel and the Palenstines. If the US was to cut support to Israel, I hate to think what would happen. Would they be able to keep their nation? How can America just abandon them? It just doesn't seem right. Do you think that a Palestine state could be created to the satisfaction of all, or do the Palestines definitely want what they had some three or four generations ago. Is there a peaceful solution, so you think? You liked the sex-change bin Laden idea? It wasn't my idea, I got it in my email, but it would be so just, wouldn't it? I thought it was pretty good too. :-)