Re: 對於近期兩次罵戰之回應 -- SFXC forum

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Subject: Re: 對於近期兩次罵戰之回應

Author:
7B5

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Date Posted: 10:12:41 04/27/03 Sun
In reply to: 堂主 's message, "對於近期兩次罵戰之回應" on 05:31:57 04/27/03 Sun

雖然座主給人一種坐視不理的感覺，但我卻認為沒有甚麼不妥，你出聲表達自己意見可能更不恰當。
若你表達意見去支持任何一方，必定令人感到堂主不公正，甚或覺得原來九濟堂也有偏見，不能讓某一方的人士暢所欲言，更可能放棄留言，我想這是宅心仁厚的堂主不欲見到的。
若你去做和事佬，問題好像不太大，但作用呢？我想也不太大了，當雙方拗到面紅耳熱，就好難坐低飲杯茶食個飽慢慢傾，到時真係睬你都傻
所以，難為了堂主！

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Replies:

[> Subject: What should be done

Author:
Summer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:51:27 04/27/03 Sun

In fact I don't want to see this website become the so-called official website of the school, because once this is the case, this website will be under the supervision of the school. Remember, if a mass media is under the supervision of a government, it is giving up its freedom of speech. I hope webmaster will think about this.
I agree what Dollman said :我的忠告是如果你希望「九濟堂」能開花結果，讓它自生自滅是不行的。So webmaster should laid down some basic rules for this website and enforce them, like "No personal attacked will be allowed", "No dirty language is allowed" etc. But that is all should be done. No freedom of view should be controlled.
See the most respected mass media in this world and we know how important freedom of speech is.
Thanks for your attention.

[> [> Subject: 平常談
Author: 人一個 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:01:51 04/27/03 Sun 但是聖芳濟是重自律精神，訂下太多規條好像不是濟記的作風。

[> [> [> Subject: That's why there should be only very basic rules
Author: Summer [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:06:02 04/27/03 Sun >但是聖芳濟是重自律精神，訂下太多規條好像不是濟記的作風?>C I agree. That's why we need some really very very basic rules only. Like our school, we have only some very basic rules compared with other schools.

[> [> [> Subject: 先擘大你隻眼
Author: 7B5 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:10:28 04/27/03 Sun 睇睇濟記近年自律的結果了覺唔覺每況月下呢？再睇睇遲到情況，當成個關公咁0既公仔佬棟係度幾日，情況即刻收歛晒，百幾個變幾個，講笑呀？呢個效果，即使阿sir揸mic好言相勸同學早d番都做唔到「治亂世用重典」，是無可厚非的

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: 先擘大你隻眼

Author:
Summer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:15:30 04/27/03 Sun

>睇睇濟記近年自律的結果了
>
>覺唔覺每況月下呢？
>
>再睇睇遲到情況，當成個關公咁0既公仔佬棟係度幾日，情況即
>刻收歛晒，百幾個變幾個，講笑呀？呢個效果，即使阿sir揸mi
>c好言相勸同學早d番都做唔到
>「治亂世用重典」，是無可厚非的
Your topic is not very polite. Let's see if Dollman will say your attitude is not good.
Anyway, I agree with your observation. That's why I say after there are rules, we have to enforce them. If the rules will be enforced strongly, things will be changed.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Sorry!我地識0架
Author: 7B5 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:34:22 04/27/03 Sun 其他人睇落去的確係幾唔禮貌，但係相信咁熟，人一個都唔會介意。 sorry!搞到你誤會，或者呢d字眼淨係可以係icq用

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: 熟人黎o既，唔會介意，因為我知道佢係冇惡意。
Author: 人一個 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 19:07:25 04/27/03 Sun

[> [> [> Subject: Summer 轉性？
Author: 公仔佬 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:28:49 04/27/03 Sun 「Anyway, I agree with your observation. That's why I say after there are rules, we have to enforce them. If the rules will be enforced strongly, things will be changed.」係咪得體左好多呢！

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Summer 轉性？
Author: 7b7 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 11:36:55 04/27/03 Sun 公仔佬,你唔係唔抵得人地講野得體嘛? 不過,好似而家0甘樣討論,大家個氣氛都幾好呀,我鍾意0甘樣,冇火藥味0既九濟堂.

[> [> Subject:

人一個兄，你一jump又jump 得太遠了

Author:
公仔佬
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:24:30 04/27/03 Sun

Some basic rules 又怎會等如「太多」規矩呢？

此外，傳媒操守和言論自由是孖生兄弟，缺一就會出亂子。

Official Web Site的理想不是說受學校監控，而是可以公開宣佈給街外人知道，這是濟記的公開留言板，是濟記的民主牆，歡迎各界有興趣的人士進內參觀。

正如當年QAI憑什麼知道大家那麼愛學校，師生關係是那麼融洽，對此，九濟堂也記了一功，可能大家不知道吧！

Summer, 你愛聽也好，你不愛聽也好，我也盡最後的努力告訴你：比方你剛纔說：「因此要訂下一些基本守則，例如不要人身攻擊、不要說粗言穢語……等，就這樣好了，其他一概不要了。否則，便是干預言論自由。」如果改為這樣說：「因此要訂下一些基本守則，例如不要人身攻擊、不要說粗言穢語……等，不知同學還有沒有其他提議呢？又大家會不會擔心訂下規矩後會妨礙同學的言論自由呢？」
你認為以此句引起同學的討論，效果會不會好一點呢？
抑或你堅持全體同學都必須聽從你的話去做呢？

[> [> [> Subject: reply to dollman

Author:
Summer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:36:19 04/27/03 Sun

>Official Web
>Site的理想不是說受學校監控，而是可以公開宣佈給街外人知?>D，這是濟記的公開留言板，是濟記的民主牆，歡迎各界有興趣
>的人士進內參觀。
If the school want to have a 公開留言板, why doesn't it make one? Why it want to "take over" this one? I still think this one should be free from any supervision, however impossible the supervision may be, because there is always a danger when one day the school will make some rules. This is dangerous.

>
>正如當年QAI憑什麼知道大家那麼愛學校，師生關係是那麼融洽
>，對此，九濟堂也記了一功，可能大家不知道吧！
That why we should continue the situation. Simple logic.

>Summer,
>你愛聽也好，你不愛聽也好，我也盡最後的努力告訴你：比方?>A剛纔說：「因此要訂下一些基本守則，例如不要人身攻擊、不
>要說粗言穢語……等，就這樣好了，其他一概不要了。否則，?>K是干預言論自由。」如果改為這樣說：「因此要訂下一些基本
>守則，例如不要人身攻擊、不要說粗言穢語……等，不知同學?>晹釣S有其他提議呢？又大家會不會擔心訂下規矩後會妨礙同學
>的言論自由呢？」
>你認為以此句引起同學的討論，效果會不會好一點呢？
>抑或你堅持全體同學都必須聽從你的話去做呢？
I have never asked anyone to follow me. Sorry if I get you this view. I just say whatever I want in a logical and lawful way. Everyone here can still say his own opinion.

[> [> [> [> Subject:

言盡於此，緣盡於此

Author:
公仔佬
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 00:17:20 04/28/03 Mon

Summer,

我真係好唔想回應你個post，如你認為那是你的style, O.K. Go ahead!

一言以蔽之，你唔係想咁，但令人人都產生誤會，這便是傳意技巧的問題了！但你有不同的看法，認為並無不妥，那絕對沒有問題。但我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

學校監控和自我監控，也是一種監控。因此，自由不是完全不受監控。正如聖芳濟同學人人自律，要校規幹啥？如不能自律，又說不要校規，說要爭取自由，這纔是矛盾。我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

同學如不自律，胡言亂語、粗言穢語，則地上地下的九濟堂都不應存在。學校沒有地上的九濟堂，這是因為同學未養成負責任留言的習慣，而不是害怕因為監管便不會有同學來留言。我致力在九濟堂要培養的，正是這些負責任留言的習慣。現在學校何曾反對同學給予意見？只是不喜歡同學不負責任的謾罵而已。如你所言，留言也可反映出同學的接受教育的程度。同一道理，我用公仔佬的身分在九濟堂留言，而不另用其他名字，是代表了我對我的留言負責。但如大家要求Summer你用真名留言，以表示你對你的言論負責，你願意嗎？如你認為無此需要、不方便，那麼，言論自由是否等如留匿名的言、寄匿名的信呢？我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

在去年QAI時，九濟堂要記一功，不只是因為有九濟堂這一項東西，而是九濟堂內師生留言間洋溢著的真、洋溢著的情。當年的督學也知道我叫做公仔佬，也知道我用劉家良和翁靜晶的例子去說明兩夫婦年紀相差太遠會出現什麼問題。當時他們以此作為interview的話題時，把我也嚇了一跳。如果學校今天纔進行QAI，你認為九濟堂還可以記一功嗎？因此，再一次，這不是simple logic！我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

最後，我要重申，既然任何人都有言論自由，那麼你也無權一定要人家接受你的看法。因此，縱使你不同意人家的意見，你表達了你的相反意見就是了，無須說人家錯、不合邏輯、不理性等等。我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

好了，若情況持續如此，便言盡於此，亦緣盡於此。我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: I respect this site because it allow freedom of speech

Author:
Summer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 04:56:43 04/28/03 Mon

>言論自由是否等如留匿名的言、寄匿名的信呢？
of course 言論自由 is not equal to 留匿名的言、寄匿名的信 because 言論自由 is more than that. But part of the spirit of 言論自由 is to allow anyone to 留匿名的言、寄匿名的信. In a democratic country, people are allowed to choose whether to use their real names to express themselves.
>
>在去年QAI時，九濟堂要記一功，不只是因為有九濟堂這一項東
>西，而是九濟堂內師生留言間洋溢著的真、洋溢著的情。當年?>熒癑エ]知道我叫做公仔佬，也知道我用劉家良和翁靜晶的例子
>去說明兩夫婦年紀相差太遠會出現什麼問題。當時他們以此作?>迺nterview的話題時，把我也嚇了一跳。如果學校今天纔進行Q
>AI，你認為九濟堂還可以記一功嗎？因此，再一次，這不是sim
>ple logic！我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？
Do you mean that you want the site to have only one view for the QAI to see? Like a teacher teach and students listen and discuss in the only way you think good?

>最後，我要重申，既然任何人都有言論自由，那麼你也無權一?>w要人家接受你的看法。因此，縱使你不同意人家的意見，你表
>達了你的相反意見就是了，無須說人家錯、不合邏輯、不理性?>扔>>央C我說的是我的看法，因此，你也無須駁我，O.K.？
But 說人家錯、不合邏輯、不理性 is also part of 言論自由 wor.
In a free society, everyone has the right to comment other people or things, and people can judge by themselves whether the comment is right or not.

From beginning to end, I never do personal attack (if I did, many people do it far more than I, why always point to me?). I only comment on some views in this website and I ask no one to follow me. Everyone should be independent. if you do not accept this, I can't force you.