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Date Posted: 00:48:23 08/27/03 Wed
Author: Kashmanik
Subject: OK, how does this sound? (please read folks!) :-)
OK, I've looked over some ideas below, (and selfishly thrown some of mine in!) and thought this might work as a rough season plan. This isn't definite! Just some thoughts.
Episodes One to Five
Dealing with the aftermath from the earthquake. Personally, I think we could pick up a few hours after Season Eight ended, with the Scoobies beginning to rescue people. We saw an awful lot of vampires and demons taking advantage of the situation in 8.21, so no doubt they're still around causing trouble. During this time (as it seemed fairly popular) Giles could become injured. I say this because he didn't seem in too bad a shape at the end of "Moments", so perhaps he's injured rescuring someone in 9.01, or 9.02, or 9.03. These episodes shouldn't be too "large scale", I don't think, since we really upped things at the end of last season (to the point where if we were ME, we'd have run into serious budget problems by now.) :-) IMO, these first five episodes should almost *decrease* in tension, as things revert to normality (except of course for Giles' injury.) This could also be a quiet time to deal with the characters relationships to one another. Since people seem to like the idea of a Willow/Kennedy breakup, that could be interesting at this point. One thing I would like to strongly suggest is that it is *Willow* who breaks it off. She's been abandoned by Oz, then Tara, then Tara died. Willow's been pretty much the victim in break-ups, so I think she should cut things off. And Anya could be pregnant! (I know I keep mentioning it, but it'd be nice to have a pregnancy on an ME show that wasn't a massive apocalyptic event!) Would raise interesting issues about Xander's continued role in the group as well.
Episodes Six to Eleven
Moving on from the wreckage of Sunnydale. I think this would be a good time for them to go pay Kennedy's parents a visit, in their massive house. Obviously they have enough space to accomodate the Scoobies temporarily, which logically is what we need right now. I was tempted to suggest they go to the Coven in England, but thats been covered in countless fics. If they went to Kennedy's (oh, we could give her a surname too!) we could give more Kennedy backstory, explore her character a little more, give her more of an edge. We could also do some MOTW type stories centred on the area Kennedy lives. (And for those American writers - Kennedy's accent. Where is that from? Is there an area we could set her parents house in that seems obvious from her speech?) I'm thinking maybe somewhere out of California. And at this point perhaps Anya can almost be killed in an attack, making her realise she has to leave for the sake of her baby.
Episodes Twelve to Sixteen
Ok, a new idea I've been cooking up here. What if the Scoobs move on to a new town that they've heard is suffering from a vampire problem. Lots of people are being turned rather than simply fed upon, and it's getting out of control. I want to see the Scoobs go on the offensive for once (and not the faux offensive promised by the Noxonator in Bring On The Night.) We have Dawn being massively powerful with the witchcraft now, so she could be put to use. What if the Scoobs decided to basically do the reverse of what the Beast did, and keep the sun shining in this town (through magic) for like a week. They theorise that this will drive the vamps underground, and stop them from feeding. They'll fight among themselves, weakening them up before the Scoobs go into the sewers/caves and pick them off. This could be a fairly long arc, planning the attack etc., but something goes wrong when they attempt it (you imaginative people can come up with that part.) :-) In short, they mess up badly, and have to face the consequences. Perhaps there is a species of good demon (a la Clem or Lorne) which feed on moonlight or some kind of unscientific malarkey like that. And essentially, the Scoobs plan will basically amount to genocide of an entire clan of non-violent, human-loving demons. Lots of guilt there for the group. And perhaps a way of writing out Dawn, in that she sacrifices herself in some way to return the sun to normal. (Either that, or her human form is breaking down since the Monks only intended it to be a short-term plan until the window of opportunity for Glory's spell had passed.) This might be an opportunity to write out Spike, perhaps, as well. Although I don't think he should be killed off, as we've already seen that on screen. The same goes for Anya. But Dawn could die, thats new. :-)
Episodes Seventeen to Twenty-Two
Here, I think it'd be kinda cool for the gang to return to Sunnydale. Maybe while they've been away, Xander's crew (minus Xander of course) have been helping clear the debris, and something is found beneath it all. Something big, spooky, and a final arc for the season. Personally, I think the First might work (cos we could *actually* do it well) but thats just a little possibility. I'm not crazy about it, but it might make sense. Especially if it became corporeal because there were hardly any humans in town and a lot more demons outnumbering them (remember First!Caleb talking about the balancing act?)
Anyway, thats just my thoughts. I think the above could work out well, as it gives distinct periods for us to decide whose character development comes when, and what the general theme of the arc is. (For example, Arc 1 could be the Scoobs general sense of exhaustion, trying to help people, sadness over Giles' injury. Arc 2 could be the Scoobs getting happier, some care-free MOTW eps, etc. Arc 3 starting happy, rapidly descending into badness. And then once again, demoralised Scoobs returning to Sunnydale and finding themselves again.)
And like I said at the start, this is just my rough, outline of a suggestion. But it's how I think things could work well.
Another thing I want everyone to do is email me at kashmanik@hotmail.com to state whether you're taking part or not. I already know about some of you, but others haven't posted on the board for a while. And I really could do with a final list of writers. So, just a simple email saying whether or not you're taking part is all I need!
:-)
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Good ideas -- Idea Guy, 22:55:56 08/27/03 Wed
But i think losing people thorughout the season wont work. Maybe lose someone in the premiere - Faith for example or someone, if the premiere is hours after 8,.22 ep2 can be months after that easily.
Over that time someone could've decided to leave as leaving a character every few episodes is a bit strange.
Faith heads off to Los Angeles (a call from Angel she doesn't return after episode 2)
Willow finishes Kennedy whilst at her home, say it's episode 12 causing Kennedy to decide not to go on, Anya reveals her pregnancy and Spike makes his decision over Buffy - episode could be called Alone again then you're down to Dawn, Andrew and the core four.If you want rid of Dawn she trhen begins to expire and is faded out by episode 18 and then the cour four and Andrew are left in the final battle.
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I don't think we need to cut out half the cast! :-) -- Kashmanik, 00:48:17 08/28/03 Thu
Personally, I'd be opposed to writing out Kennedy. I think she, Faith and Andrew should be kept, regardless of who else leaves, simply because they're new characters (or old character who has returned) and there're still stories to be told with them.
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cool -- Idea guy, 00:58:19 08/28/03 Thu
but why is Faith there? Maybe Spike could leave over Buffys jealousy of FIKE frienship.
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Sounds like a plan 2 me -- Spike's Bird *u always have the best ideas kash*, 10:37:13 08/28/03 Thu
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Meh. -- JSlayeUK, 19:20:59 08/28/03 Thu
Honest opinion? Very... meh.
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Well then suggest something else. -- Kashmanik, 21:21:48 08/28/03 Thu
Constructive criticism, please.
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My main reservation... -- Wyvern, 22:10:53 08/28/03 Thu
Yes, I'm firmly in favour of slimming down the cast. Whilst I'm not sure I want to spend too much time on rebuilding Sunnydale (a slow down is necessary in the real world but doesn't necessarily make for gripping viewing - I'd be inclined to allow a little time to have passed and spend maybe 3 episodes on the latter part of the regeneration of Sunnydale because 5 episodes is too long to be letting things slide). I do like the idea of Willow breaking things off with Kennedy - I always got the impression that Willow wasn't totally into the relationship in the first place, so it fits fine with me.
The Anya pregnancy thing. Not a problem, but I don't see why it has to lead to Anya being all but written out. Last season I was in favour of writing her right out but this season I think we've used her so well that there's a lot more we can do with her. And I don't want to do a pregnancy storyline that early on, without Anya and Xander spending time "together" together first. I don't *really* want to do a pregnancy storyline at all - it's not going to be a mystical pregnancy and it's otherwise so limiting of the character. But if we do one, I don't think it should be an excuse to scale back Anya's involvement. Pregnancy isn't an illness and although it's physically demanding it just means that Anya's role would change a little. Having said that, Anya isn't really about the combat anyway, though she's always prepared to step into a scrap if she needs to. Writing pregnancy always tends to get cliched - there's always some variation on the "the baby's in peril" storyline or the "dangerous birth" situation or whatever, and that's so done to death. So if we write pregnancy, I'm keen to make it no big deal. I'd rather we did them getting married at some point - "Feb sweeps" would be my timing of choice, though "Nov sweeps" would be as acceptable. In fact, yes, have the wedding in Nov and the pregnancy announcement in Feb. Yes, it means that the birth would be S10, but if we decide *not* to do an S10, all we need to do is either an "epilogue" episode or we can do the spinoff movie series! I think it would be nice to do something really different with pregnancy and childbirth and by making it a side issue, I think that would do nicely. Plus, it would lead in for the birth being in S10 Nov sweeps...
Another important character point.
Assuming that Sunnydale is a 3 year high school (unless Dawn's been retconned to make her a year younger!) she should be graduating this season.
Slimming the cast... (how I'd do it if I was god...)
Lose Kennedy. We've been warming to her a little by writing her, but although the audience seems to prefer our version, she just isn't working.
Make Faith recurring. We can still use her a lot (maybe 17 of 22 eps, like certain characters seem to have been contracted for in AtS this season).
DON'T KILL SPIKE! It would be really cool from a dramatic point of view, but it's ratings suicide. If we're going to approach this from the point of view of making a TV series, we have to make it commercially viable, which means being aware of the demographic we're trying to reach. However, if we're not going to make Spike all dusty, we could make him recurring too - in fact, we could have him in LA with AI and popping back from time to time if we wanted!
If Dawn's graduating, Buffy will probably encourage her to spend more time studying. This would naturally allow us to scale back her involvement and use her in a recurring capacity rather than in every episode. Again, I'm finding the theme of noble self sacrifice a bit cliched. Though it might be fun for the monks spell to start breaking down and for Dawn to have to choose once and for all between being the Key and being Dawn and Willow and Giles having to do something magick to separate the Dawn and Key elements.
Phew, my brain's broken down now...
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Good -- Idea Guy, 23:11:19 08/28/03 Thu
I do think somebody should leave though. Just because it's who everyone is used to it doesn't mean they need to be around.
Spike's got nothing left of his own to tell and Faith, like I said, isn't a group girl.
Nobody out of the core four has lasted (other than Spike) more than three seasons as a regular. I think new characters would be good or Dawn going to school elsewhere (I'd imagine Sunnydale high is gone?)
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Hmm, two birds with one stone perhaps? -- Kashmanik, 23:16:37 08/28/03 Thu
They could decide around mid-season that Dawn should go back to school, whilst the gang are needed elsewhere. So pregnant Anya and Dawn go and settle down somewhere, whilst the rest carry on.
We could even do a one-off episode that is just Dawn and Anya in a new town dealing with some demonic plans. :-)
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See - Everyone wins. -- Idea Guy, 23:19:49 08/28/03 Thu
If you do it at the right time then there could be enough going on not to majorly notice it. If you just scaled down the appearance then if you season 10 make the cast list be minus them (If you do do a season 10 I really think Spike's story is over by then)
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Well, I did suggest... -- Wyvern, 23:49:14 08/28/03 Thu
...writing out Kennedy. She just doesn't fit right. All the other potentials are gone and despite everything we've done she's always going to be first and foremost Willow's (possibly ex-)girlfriend. And she's not actually very interesting. If it wasn't for his continuing popularity, I'd get rid of Andrew as well and go back to centering on the core scoobies for a while.
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good point. -- Idea guy, 23:53:26 08/28/03 Thu
One thing I think was wrong is that it took Mutant Enemy three seasons to credit Tara as a regular yet season eight has allowed it after thirteen episodes. I think a list of seven regulars (Buffy, Xander, Anya, Dawn, Andrew, Spike and Willow) would work fine keeping Kennedy and Faith recurring (Kennedy in seventeen, Faith in maybe fourteen) and having Giles (as, realistically he was demoted to recurring) as recurring especially if the wheelchair thing takes off.
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I actually like that balance of characters a lot better -- Wyvern, 00:02:40 08/29/03 Fri
Just so long as we make the most of Giles wherever we use him, rather than his just happening to be there but not being properly used (if you know what I mean).
The one idea I really dislike is that we might use an Anya pregnancy as an excuse to downplay her role, and effectively Xander's as well (cos I don't see us being able to send her away in that condition without him following cos I'm certainly not in favour of her pregnancy splitting them up again! And not that I'm suggesting it out of any sense of moral outrage, I'd really like them to get married before we do that storyline anyway - cos I want them to have happy things to do!!!)
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But don't you think..... -- Kashmanik, 00:02:20 08/29/03 Fri
...that Kennedy's non-interestingness (it's a word....!) can be rectified? That's the point I was going for when I suggested a little more focus on her. We could, if we really worked at it, create an interesting character out of her, by allowing some backstory and character development.
I'd be more tempted to remove some of the older regulars rather than remove Kennedy or Andrew. JMO.
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We tried it. -- Wyvern, 00:06:46 08/29/03 Fri
The problem is, I'm not sure that the writers really enjoy writing her, though most of us have probably warmed to her a little more through writing her. I know I find her difficult to write, though. And I just don't see the point in developing a character the audience consistently refuses to invest in.
Shed older regulars if you like, but not core scoobies and not people in key relationships to core scoobies. Faith and Spike are IMO the best candidates.
My feeling is that this season we should concentrate on the core scooby dynamic and scale down the characters on the periphery.
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Right then. -- JSlayerUK, 00:03:20 08/29/03 Fri
Okay, here's my beef. Take it or leave it. I've danced about for some time...
Truth of the matter is, the cast have become stagnant. Regardless of whether we trim the number down, I don't see that being a sufficent solution to the problem. Understandably, after 8 years, we've come to the point where we have to say "Where do we go from here?". For real. Reducing the cast bloat will just lead to fewer characters with nowhere to go.
My personal opinion is not that we need to reduce the cast, but shake them up. Location, direction, association and all those other tions. I mean, take season 5 of AtS for a prime example. That's where we have characters put in a new surrounding with new goals and new responsibilties. That's the sort of thing we need to do. There's only so much the gang can do hanging about in Buffy's living room. Now, although at this very moment I cannot think of a feasible way in which we could shake up the gang (barring the one Kash knows about) I see that being the way forward.
Now I am seriously trying to think up *something*, but I think in order to continue we should list the problems that need fixing. Anybody get where I'm coming from?
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I'll post at some point my original idea for S9 J. -- Kashmanik, 00:05:09 08/29/03 Fri
I had several thoughts during mid-season Eight about Season Nine, and a mjor shake-up of things. I'll post it soon and get feedback. :-)
(It's very different to whats on the board now!)
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Okay, here it is..... -- Kashmanik, 00:19:29 08/29/03 Fri
Originally, this (in my head) would have carried on from an Ep 8.22 cliffhanger but Linda and imisstara chose another (perfectly valid and very entertaining) direction.
Sunnydale has, by the end of S8, been completely blown open. The Hellmouth is destroyed, a lot of humans are dead from the quake, and demons are roaming the streets. Chaos. I imagined Dawn, using her Key powers and her magic, to create a massive Barrier around the ruins of the town. Well, not so much create as simply reform herself (as the Key) into a Barrier to keep the demons inside. But, due to all the demonic nastiness, she literally unleashes a hell on earth. With a few Scoobs trapped inside (at the time this, in my head, was Spike, Andrew and Giles. Since they were trapped in that building in 8.20.) I think those three could still work well.
Meanwhile, the others would have escaped, and collapsed wearily onto a hillside. Just as the Initiative shows up (I can hear the groaning already, but hush! Riley and Sam the Alcoholic Robot won't return!) They've come since a massive earthquake right over the Hellmouth isn't exactly a coincidence. And they find it very interesting that a noted "anarchist group" are the only people to escape the town.
Fast forward three months. Buffy, Faith and Willow are being held prisoner, in isolation, in a temporary Initiative base outside the Barrier. They're being interrogated as they're still deemed to be a threat, whilst Anya, Xander and Kennedy have been released. (Being only human.) Buffy, Faith and Willow haven't seen each other for 3 months, nor do they know what the hell is going on.
Inside the Barrier, Giles, Andrew and Spike have formed a group of survivors from the quake, only about 20 or so people. Almost everyone else was either killed in the disaster, or by the various demons unleashed by Dawn's barrier spell. We could have several old characters reappear as part of this rag-tag bunch of survivors. Sheila Rosenberg, Scott Hope, Nancy from "Beneath You", Percy from S3... the survivors are basically living a crappy existence, foraging for food and shelter and avoiding the demons (which can be real nasty hell-beasties, not just your run of the mill demon.) Giles is injured, and so Spike is thrust into a leadership role *dingdingding character development*.
On the outside world, the three imprisoned Scoobies could be busted out (anyone see Graham coming ot the rescue here?) But of course, they've nowhere to go. They don't know where Anya, Xander and Kennedy are, nor do they know whats happened to Dawn. As the series progressed to the mid-part, the gang would reform, but we'd essentially have two shows for the first half of the season. The gang inside the Barrier, and the gang outside.) Mid-season Willow could discover a way to lower the Barrier and get the survivors out (who they've had no contact with, but know are in there). But they also know the Barrier is Dawn, so destroying it destroys any chance of getting her back. Putting Buffy in a tough decision making place.
I really like this idea. The fractured gang, finding new roles for themselves, lots of opportunity for angst. And we could set it up easily in 9.01, with the ep starting with Buffy's interrogation by the Intiative and told in flashbacks. (If we go for this, I'm *so* writing that ep.)
There's more besides this, but thats the basic outline. Biiiiig shakeup.
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Just to clarify.... -- Kashmanik, 00:34:35 08/29/03 Fri
The Barrier is a big, crackly impenetrable green dome over what Sunnydale used to be. :-)
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Shaking things up -- Idea Guy, 00:12:34 08/29/03 Fri
Like.
Sunnydale is gone and the group have to move on to a new place for the first time in close to a decade, they realise that they have to move on - how long can they remain in one place together?
Buffy finally begins to see Dawn as a grown up which causes Dawn to realise she has to be one now that Buffy is no longer needing to protect her.
Buffy now has the time for a relationship after knowing the Hellmouth is gone - the problem is (fill in the blank) meets her in the new location and sparks fly, who does she choose?
Willow has graduated college, she has her career and future to consider, does she really have time for this?
Kennedy is feeling like a Riley (left out) especially when Willow gets a job as a teaching assistant in Dawns new HighSchool where her senior year cause some (boyfriend) shaped changes.
Anya has to make a stand with Xander when he begins seeing (fill in the new character blank)
Giles has been seriously injured for the first time since returning from England. With everyone moving on he begins to question where he let his own (personal) life go over the last decade.
Those kinds of struggles?
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Ok my oppion if anyone cares -- That one Guy, 01:18:28 08/29/03 Fri
Say we evaluate EACH character and vote weather they stay or get kicked... or are recurring
We do need to get things down... of who's here and when they are ... I'd suggest we get rid of kennedy...(I know I've been on this but listen) Everyone I talk to about the fic don't like the character... She hard to write and she takes away from plots and arcs.
Xander: I'd like to see him and anya finally end up together and be happy in the now non evil sunnydale... (4-5 episodes would be good). I mean have Anya get pregnaunt and him choice that over everything.
Andrew Takes Xanders place as the zeppo, we get new character to right. From a stand point Andrew can do alot exspeicaly if the scoobies like him.
Buffy: finally realizes things have to move on, so they go to Cleveland or another hell mouth. I know but come on where do you want them to go.
Dawn: Starts/Finishes school or whatever she wants I think dawn we can decide once we decide where and when.
Willow: Follows buffy because of her magic.
Spike: I like writing him and as from ratings we can think of a good storyline. Maybe give spike a chance to be human only to have him realize he'd rather be a vampire cause of the immortality thing and also cause he likes the strenght.
Giles: We should put Giles into a wheel chair for a couple episodes and have him go and set up Anya and Xander and give them the Magic box. (have him come to wherever like with 6 episodes left)
Faith: Make her recurring. I love faith and she's my favorite character but she isn't groupy. (7 episodes left)
2.) Places, Here are a few I think we could go. Cleveland, Las Vegas, New Orleans, or Pennyslvania.
3.) Plot lines we can sort out once we decide places and stuff. I don't know about you but I think we should go somewhere new and different. I think that would incredibly help for new material.
4.) Big Bad pick it depending on the new place.
5.) Guest stars and ship. we should decide when we see who's staying and how long.
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Ok, my picks, dibs and 'yeahs' -- BunnyPhobia, 13:32:12 08/29/03 Fri
Firstly...The idea that grates the most is Anya being pregnant. Not because she is pregnant, but I highly doubt that she would just LEAVE and that Xander would happily LET her leave. He wouldn't. He'd go with her, finally choosing Anya over Buffy...And as he's a core scoob, dammed if I'd let him leave the show.
For me, I think they should firstly decide to resume their relationship, on the quiet. They're older, more mature now, and are gonna be testing the waters. They're not going to be jumping in, getting married (cos, hello, old issues much?) and having babies that quickly. IMO, of course.
Buffy. Buffy needs something new...Something NON SHIPPY in my opinion. We need to push her character in a new direction. She's become a 'mother' and an uber-slayer, so what's left? That's the difficult question, but I think something along the lines of her powers changing or being at risk. She's the oldest slayer, EVER (as far as we know). This has got to have some effect, surely?
I do like the idea of the enjoining spell having repurcussions. We could, of course, take that in a dark direction later in the season, after firstly establishing it as a good thing.
Sunnydale? Ok, here's what I was thinking. The season opens AT Kennedy's estate. sunnydale is still being rebuilt, and it's a bit difficult to live there, so they've gone to Kennedy's/
Cue much weirdness (ghosties? We could have ghosties!!), and, say, after two eps, Willow calls the relationship off, Kennedy stays at home, whilst everyone else returns to Sunnydale. I also have an image of X and A sat on the floor of a kitchen, deciding to get back together, but that's just me :)
Then they head back to Sunnydale. I do think that Giles should be in a wheelchair, OR, something much more severe - he keeps suffering from memory loss, memory blanks. Just imagine, for a guy who's sole purpose in the group is his knowledge...imagine how frustrating that would be, how traumatic and how it would force Giles and the others to really consider what he actually means to them.
For Dawn...I do like Kash's orignal idea of turning her into a barrier, and I just wonder if we can't do something like that in the middle of the season (similar to the 'two crichtons and two ships' of Farscape, season three). There's inside the barrier, and outside the barrier. Of course, the reasons behind Dawn's transformation would have to be decided, but soemthing that big could also provide oppourtunity to kill someone off (dare I say Andrew?). That way, too, we don't HAVE to use all characters each episode, because you're focussing on only one of the two groups each ep.
Just an idea, mind.
As for big bads, well....keeping in mind the need to push Buffy in one direction she hasn't been and the effect of her powers and such like...We could have Big Bad Buffy? Or, simply Bitca Buffy...Just soemthing that lets us bring a little edge back to her character. Dawn's old enough to look after herself, B doesn't have to mom her anymore..she can move on, become herself for herself again..
As for Spike...ratings wise, he does need to stay. I'm just not quite sure where we can go with him...
And I think I'm the only one against S/B/F. I just can't understand why two Slayers feel the need to keep returning to Spike...shouldn't they find themselves first, they've been through a lot.
Of course, the other alternative for character growth is Dawn and her 'blossoming', finding herself. Ie, sexuality etc...
Makes the scoobies feel REALLY old :)
Ok, hat's my rambling for now...
~BP
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