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Date Posted: 00:14:26 08/21/03 Thu
Author: anyas_butt_monkey
Subject: I say we get things moving.... Season 9 talk!!!
OK, I say we first come up with the simple stuff: what's going to have happened over the summer?
How far has the rebuilding of Sunnydale gotten? Are the Scoobies all still helping, or have they left temporarily while Sunnydale gets rebuilt? How is Past!Giles coping with all his new "memories"?
What's the relationships between the gang like, after several months?
I also think that introducing a couple of new characters, new pals of the Scoobies (not necessarily in on the whole demon vibe), wouldn't be a bad idea. We could write them in as if they've gotten to know our heroes over the summer - no actual introduction, just slowly getting to know them over a few episodes as friends of various Scoobs.
Lets get talking!
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Yes -- That one Guy, 04:00:00 08/22/03 Fri
ABM your alive, guess that assassin I sent out after you didn't work....
OK, I say we first come up with the simple stuff: what's going to have happened over the summer?
Maybe they spent the whole time fixing stuff, um the hell mouth did it's normal summer retreat and I don't know...
How far has the rebuilding of Sunnydale gotten? say first 2 episodes still have them building...
Are the Scoobies all still helping, or have they left temporarily while Sunnydale gets rebuilt? Slayer power could make building easier... but they are lazy
How is Past!Giles coping with all his new "memories"?
Don't know let you people think of those, I saw we have someone go insane....
What's the relationships between the gang like, after several months?
Faith/Spike
Dawn/Andrew
Xander/Buffy
Giles/Anya
Willow and Kennedy broken up...
I also think that introducing a couple of new characters, new pals of the Scoobies (not necessarily in on the whole demon vibe), wouldn't be a bad idea. We could write them in as if they've gotten to know our heroes over the summer - no actual introduction, just slowly getting to know them over a few episodes as friends of various Scoobs.
If we do then we have to reconsider the cast, I think we have a lot of characters as it is now, maybe trim down the heard and make them have guest appearances...
Lets get talking!
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Some ideas Katie and I had... -- Linda_Delurked, 20:01:03 08/22/03 Fri
We'd speculated on possibilities for season 9, and we had a couple of ideas.
First, we thought it would be fun to have some leftover effects from the enjoining spell. Nothing huge, no power-sharing stuff. Just that every now and then Dawn, Willow and Buffy would be able to sense each others' feelings (and, handily enough, when they're in danger) and would have some of each others' memories.
Second, we thought it would be *really* good if Giles is still injured from the quake. One idea I had was having a normal opening scene with Buffy and Dawn talking to Giles. Giles is sitting behind a desk, and the others are fussing over him. Then, during the conversation Giles comes out from behind the desk and we see that he's in a wheelchair.
Giles will recover, but it takes most of the season. In the meantime he feels frustrated and useless because he's even weaker than he was before. Instead of being Buffy's guide and tutor, he's become a burden (as he sees it). It's also a good way of exploring Buffy's feelings towards Giles, letting her express how she thinks of him as her father, since we've seen that he thinks of her as his daughter (and Dawn too). We think the injury makes a good subplot for the season.
Both Katie and I have started to like Kennedy since we've begun writing for her. We'd like to explore her character more. We also think she should break up with Willow, mostly so we can see how she fits in with the gang when she's not just Willow's girl.
Lastly, and I know other people thought of this too, we want more of the Buffy/Spike/Faith triangle!
Katie wrote in her part of the finale that Faith and Spike were lovers in the Prosawhatshername Utopia. We thought it would be *fantastic* if Faith still has feelings for him. All the gang who were part of that reality remember it. Faith has a whole lifetime of memories, and a lot of them revolve around Spike. We saw that Faith was hunting Spike down in the utopia, after he betrayed her and Prosergonelastseasona. We thought it would be fun to explore that, have Faith in love with the memories of her and Spike. It gives the potential for lots of flashbacks.
I also have this whole plot worked out revolving around someone with powers to raise the dead and a cult bent on raising the anointed one, but I'll explain that later!
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I like the sound of that -- Wyvern, 21:29:47 08/22/03 Fri
It all makes sense and part of me is really drawn to the Giles injury sub-plot. I agree that I started to warm for Kennedy since I started writing for her too - remember, I ended up writing a Kennedy-centric episode! But I do feel that the Kennedy/WIllow relationship felt forced, so I'd be happy to see her and Willow separated but perhaps still friends; maybe Kennedy sees that Willow wasn't really ready for another serious relationship, maybe Willow sees that she still has some grieving to do before she truly moves on. I think I'd like Willow to have a little breathing space for a while. The only 'ship I'm keen to see taken further is Xander/Anya; we've really been building on them getting back together through S8 and we need some resolution there one way or the other. Traditionally, in the Buffyverse couples can't remain happy together for long, however, in the wider Jossverse, we only have to look at the Zoe/Wash relationship to see that it is possible to have a married couple who have a great deal of history, still love each other, but still manage to have interesting storylines...
Not that I'm saying they should get married, though at 24 they're starting to reach an age where it's a bit more feasible (for my part, I was 2 weeks off my 25th birthday when I got married...). But if they do, bags I the wedding episode!
And yes, more Buffy/Spike/Faith triange. For some reason that excites me far more than the Spike/Buffy/Angel triangle we've kind of had from ME. And not just in the smutty way :)
I haven't really given the plot for S9 a great deal of thought yet, but I'm looking forward to debating it. I do think we might need less elements than this year, though. Raven and The Horsemen and Amy and Proserpexa were all interesting, but did we really need them all? I thought that although Raven was a really interesting concept, and she was generally well conceived and well written, she was ultimately a bit of a fifth wheel; we could have achieved most of the season without her. Part of me wishes we'd saved her for later!
And I love the joining spell idea...
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 23:42:38 08/22/03 Fri
I think the idea of a residual imprint of the enjoined characters is cool as long as it's limited time only. It would create too much of a get-out for people in danger to be able to use it all the time. They could have it for a few episodes but then discover it's harmful, as they're all connected if one of them died severing the connection would kill the other two.
I have mixed feeling about having Giles in a wheelchair, I can't help thinking people will think we just used the Spike in a wheelchair idea from S2. However it does have the cool Professor X vibe to it and I'd LOVE to see people's reaction to that scene.
I'm not sure how I feel about splitting Willow and Kennedy up yet, in a way I felt it would just be a rehash of the Willow/Tara breakup. As we've seen this season with Xander/Anya and Spike/Buffy, there's just too much history for a clean break between two characters who were involved. But on the other hand Kennedy needs something to do besides being Willow's girlfriend.
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Agreed with Sgt Rock.... -- anyas_butt_monkey, 02:05:18 08/23/03 Sat
Breaking up Willow/Kennedy to see how she fits feels a lot like what ME did with Willow/Tara.
Doesn't mean to say that its not a good idea though ;)
Also, am I the *only* person who thinks Xander and Anya should get back together?
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Xander and Anya and Willow and Kennedy -- Wyvern, 17:14:10 08/23/03 Sat
No you're NOT the only one who thinks they should be back together - I said that too!!! I said it several times... we've been bringing them back together all through S8 to a degree and I want to get them back together properly!!!
I'm not into splitting up Willow and Kennedy to see how she fits in, though. I'm into splitting them up because I think together they limit each other and because the relationship has never felt right anyway. They seem to be together just because they are, not because they are right for each other. I always felt in S7 that the way they came together had more to do with Willow going along with it than actively wanting the relationship and also that it was sloppy writing anyway to a degree. It was almost, "Hey, I'm a lesbian, you're a lesbian, let's get together and be lesbians together..." rather than a proper getting ot know you. It would be more interesting to have another lesbian character who wasn't in a relationship with Willow, or whom Willow turned down or whatever. It just felt to me that they happened to be in the same place at the same time and with the same orientation so they automatically ended up together.
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Right on! -- anyas_butt_monkey, 23:55:36 08/24/03 Sun
ME wrote the Wennedy relationship knowing they would probably never have to worry about its long-term prosperity. Unfortunately, we do.
You are right, Wyvy, they don't fit well together. At the time, it was sorta like "hey, it might be the end of the world, wanna hook up?".
Problem is, we'd then have to deal with Kennedy on her own. As much as I hate to say this, I think we can all agree that it's easier when she's Willow's girlfriend.
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I don't know -- That one Guy, 01:06:49 08/25/03 Mon
I think we should have Willow break up with Kennedy...
Why you may say
1.) Willow always gets left.
2.) They don't work.
3.) Kennedy and Andrew... come on you know it'd be a neat shop...
4.) Why not... Kenned and Willow don't fit.
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I agree yet -- That one Guy, 04:32:37 08/23/03 Sat
I think we should consider trimming down the cast a little (not get rid of but have some move on or something because as it is now theres to many...
As Kennedy, When did she learn to fight so good? I don't know.. Either way get a good arc and I'm on board, don't want to see her with willow...
Big Bad Ideas.... You know we killed off a few... But with the whole demsion thing who's to say they stayed dead? I mean we could say Raven slip back across to earth...
I don't know I say we break down to groups for stuff like BB's, LB's and Char arcs and such and have the groups come up with the things...
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My thoughts on Season 9 - and what I think our first decision needs to be -- imisstara, 17:50:56 08/23/03 Sat
I think the biggest question that needs to be answered is the Sunnydale dilemna. Are the Scoobies still living in Sunnydale? Did they move somewhere else? With Sunnydale gone, the possibilites are now endless. Maybe we could give them a fresh start somewhere else, since the Hellmouth is now officially gone forever. That's a point we need to address also. Remember, the Hellmouth was destroyed in episode 14, so why would demons still come to a rebuilt Sunnydale?
We also don't have to have only a summer go by (TINY ANGEL SPOILER AHEAD) from the spoilers, it doesn't seem like Angel is sticking to the 'summer break' so we don't have to either. We could set the new season six months ahead, if we wanted to.
However, I know that's pretty dramatic, so if we just want to stick with the formula and keep them in Sunnydale, the major question is then how is the rebuilding going? That is probably the first question we need to answer, then we can go from there.
About Giles ... Like Linda said, we had an idea that Giles could be temporarily crippled and in a wheel chair and would progressively get better throughout the entire season. It wouldn't be too bad, we thought soon enough he could be walking with a cane, then a limp, and eventually he'd be okay. It would also be a nice physical representation of the isolation he has felt from the group in recent years.
I also agree that I think we simply have too many cast members that are in every episode. I don't think that Kennedy and Willow should be broken up by the start of the season, but I think there should be major bumps in their road ahead. To me, their break-up kind of just seems inevitable. I think it would make sense for the character and the storyline to turn recurring after she and Willow break up, which could happen in mid season.
I also think that Andrew and Faith should be put on recurring status. I think we've done a wonderful job with them this past season, but do we really need them in every single episode? Both of these characters seem a little extraneous to me, like they wouldn't need to be around the Scoobies every single day...especially Faith. Why is she sticking around now? Even if they're still in 15-18 episodes, like Andrew was in Season 7, I think that it would still be better instead of squeezing them in when they're not needed.
I also don't think we should be afraid of ships in Season 9. Who cares if they stir a little controversy? That's the fun part! There will always be people pro or anti Spuffy, pro or anti Xanya, pro or anti- Spanya, Killow, Wara etc. but we should explore them a little! Also, I think it would be fun to pair a Scooby with an original character. Possibly a first boyfriend for Dawn? As for Andrew...I think one of the things that works best for him (or Lorne on 'Angel', for that matter)is their ambiguity, so I think it's a bad idea to give Andrew a love interest of either sex. It's not something I see ME ever doing. And yes, I'd like to see Xander and Anya slowly rekindle their relationship throughout the season, taking things slowly.
The Faith/Spike/Buffy triangle seemed to be very popular this year, so maybe we could continue to play with it a little. I think if we show Faith's developing feelings for Spike, it would add layers to the triangle. By Season 9, Buffy and Faith would be firmly in their 20s and we all know how old Spike is, so I think it would be fun to show a more mature side of the triangle, and it's not like we'd have to show a definitive 'winner' if we didn't want to. Faith would have feelings for Spike, Spike would have feelings for Buffy, and lol God only knows what Buffy wants, so it could all make for some good drama, but not too overt the top or high-schooly.
I think we've done a great job with Willow and Dawn this season, which season 8 obviously focused most on. But I think it would be smart to put the focus back on Buffy more in Season 9. Of course I'm not saying at all that we should neglect any other character, but I think a bigger and more long-lasting arc for Buffy would be a smart idea.
And I also really like the idea of side-effects from the enjoining spell. That was Linda's! It wouldn't have to be too serious or long-lasting, but it could make for some interesting scenes and a little comedy.
Okay, that's it for my ideas for now! Discuss!
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A few thoughts..... -- Kashmanik, 16:02:19 08/25/03 Mon
I think that for this season we should take a leaf out of AtS' book and do something like Angel's 4th season. Mini-arcs, culminating in one BB arc at the end.
So with that in mind, maybe we could basically split the season into three. The first stage, rescuing survivors in Sunnydale (and I honestly think we should start 9.01 at the end of 8.22) because the town was utterly levelled. It wouldn't get rebuilt, if we look at it realistically I don't think. So perhaps the first arc of the season can be that something demon-y has been unleashed by the earthquake (something that had been in an underground cavern or something) which they have to deal with, and also deal with Giles' injury (which is an idea I like, if handled well.)
Second arc would be leaving Sunnydale behind, and going on to somewhere else until they figure out what they're going to do. And I *really* think they should go to Kennedy's parents house. It has *wings*, for gods sake, plenty of space! Plus it would give us a chance to really beef up Kennedy's character, and perhaps give her a slightly sinister family. (Or something back home that could entertain for a few eps). Then maybe another little arc here, focussing on another character, before they all learn that they have to go back to Sunnydale to fight some big evil thats emerged. (I just love the idea of them doing battle in this massive, abandoned wasteland that used to be Sunnydale.)
As for ships, I'd say:
Willow/Kennedy - split them up amicably
Anya/Xander - marriage. Or perhaps the pitter patter of tiny feet?
The Spike/Buffy/Faith triangle.... I really dont like. If only for the fact that there was also a Faith/Xander/Anya triangle last year, and it would be turning into a bit of a recurring theme for Faith! But, it's a group decision.
As for writing out characters, I think in all honesty we should write out Spike and Anya. (awaits savage attacks) Basically because then it would be shaping our fic to something more like the actual Buffyverse, what with Sunnydale being destroyed etc. But not to kill them off. As I said above, perhaps Anya gets pregnant, and decides she cant be constantly on the road with them and putting herself in danger, so goes to live a normal life somewhere. But of course, everyone has to go to her rescue at some point. :-)
Spike's harder to do, but I think still possible.
Anyway, i'll come back with more coherent thoughts when I'm *not* hungover. :-)
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And yet more ramblings. :-) -- Kashmanik, 21:54:42 08/25/03 Mon
OK, I'm just writing things as they come to me, so if this makes no sense... well, boohoo. :-)
Ships: As I said before, and have given it more thought now, Anya and Xander's relationship has to go to a new level. Even if they get back together full time, and even if they get married they still wouldn't really be progressing much beyond what we saw in early to mid S6. I would push for the idea of Anya and Xander having a child. As well as allowing us a nice, non-lethal way to write out Anya (which I believe is a necessity in order to introduce new characters) it would provide a great dilemma for Xander. He'd finally have to make the big decision in his life between Buffy and Anya. Staying to fight, or leaving to raise his child with Anya.
And yes, as before, I still think Spike needs to go. As well as making our fic more "real", I don't see (personally) where else we can take his character. Thats another reason that I feel a Buffy/Faith/Spike triangle won't work, because in my eyes its a step backwards for his character (and Buffy). They had very little shippiness really in S8. Sure, they had their moments, but a lot of ex's do. To put them together again in either a subtle or overt romantic situation seems to be going in the wrong direction.
And let me explain why I think Spike needs to go. Basically, the core four cant really leave. Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander are the mainstays of the show, in my view. We need them as far as the fic goes. Andrew and Kennedy are also exempt from nominations this week on Big Brother... sorry, off track there. But yeah, theres still a lot we can learn about Andrew, and a *hell* of a lot about Kennedy (since I think if we all admit it, she got very little development in S8.) People say its because they dont like the character, but we can make her an interesting character, and desirable to have around (whether its in a good or bad way.) Faith is only recently back on the show, but unless we do something with her, she's kinda redundant. Needs to be more integrated plotwise this year. And Dawn... well, I think Dawn could possibly leave the fic too. Her massive rise to power this season could be an interesting story to round off some point in S9, or else we've got another uber-witch in the fic. Which, as with Faith, makes her useless to have around if she's just Witch-Fu girl.
Anyway, there's my nominations. Anya and Spike to leave the fic, and possibly Dawn also. We could even ratchet up the stress on the readers by having them all taken out by one enemy, in one episode. Because *no* BB has ever done that much damage to the Scoobs in one attack. (Although I REALLY want happy pregnant Anya! And also terrified-of-going-into-labour Anya.) :-)
The seasons structure now. As opposed to my three-parter thing before, I think a four-parter season could work well. With each part focussing on two characters primarily. (i.e. Part 1 - Giles and Anya. Part 2 - Kennedy and Spike. Part 3 - Buffy and Andrew. Part 4 - Xander and Faith.) Just an example, but you see what I mean. Wouldn't cover everyone, but those characters with less development (Andrew, Kennedy, Faith, and also Buffy who was strangely neglected in S8!)
Which brings me to another point. Buffy. She's the title character, but most of the major events in the season (with the exception of the final few eps) seemed quite detached from her. She really has to be the main focus again next season, and we have to do something big with her IMO. Not sure what, but she needs more development!
Thats basically the reason I'm pushing for the 4-part structure. We got very bogged down with plotting a full season story with S8, and I think a 4-part structure could work well for developing characters. Everyone would get their time in the spotlight (as long as we dont forget Buffy again.) :-)
I've really rambled now, but I'll say it again, I'll probably be back with more aimless yammering later!
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Idea off of yours -- That one Guy, 00:46:28 08/26/03 Tue
Maybe have Spike and Faith go guard cleavelands hell mouth maybe that way (we still have them if we need.. dawn can go with them and train to be a watcher ) that way we have room for them later, maybe they could call the gang for help or something...
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Re:Idea -- Idea Guy, 00:56:58 08/26/03 Tue
I like your idea but it should be after a "Buffy, where are we going? Where do i stand with you and what do i have to stay for?" from Spike...he and Faith really suit friends but not a couple. You can sort of have the triangle that way and have episode 9-12 be when you drop people if Anya is pregnant then you could have her find out in episode 10 and in episode 11 she's like "no more moving"
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