| Subject: You Need to Read This Donald... |
Author:
Vince
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Date Posted: 11:54:08 06/07/04 Mon
In reply to:
Donald
's message, "Re: Challenge to Donald" on 10:14:57 06/07/04 Mon
Donald,
I believe you owe me an apology by bringing up here, in public, a conversation that I had in confidence with you on the phone some time back, where I spoke to you in confidence. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer speak to you on the phone any longer as what one would expect would be an honest hearted discussion is actually something that is being used to besmirch at a later date. It is the nasty manner in which you have done this which is so insulting Donald. You know what heart attitude you have in this. The fact that what you brought up has no relation to the original discussion just illustrates all this.
More importantly, I also think you owe me an apology for this totally false accusation, for which I have had no apology for whatsoever, just more self righteousness and smugness on your part:
Donald: “You have not even read the article. Then again you have probably not read Harry Potter either, whereas the author of the article had. I must admit I have only read the first book, but I guess that is still more than you. But this should come as no surprise to me, after all your whole web site is a collection of other people's opinions on various books and subjects; an assortment of quotes from books you have never read.”
Yet you still have the cheek to say this in your recent post:
Donald: “How you can think that I initiated a personal attack on you is beyond me. The point I made was a factual one and no apology is necessary.” And “While you have dragged various issues in public I have not followed you in slinging mud”
You have a short memory Donald. Read what you wrote again. I thought an apology from you is too much to ask, as your pride stops you from doing this, despite the fact that I was willing to apologize on my own forum for the ivory tower phraseology (which wasn’t even applied to you!).
You say you haven’t said nothing that isn’t true? I have shown above that this is false. You have indeed said things about me that are totally untrue as the above quote from you has shown.
I also take issue with this recent statement:
Donald: “Then I realised that it was foolish of me to expect anything else, since you also give blanket condemnations of Jehovah's Witnesses without reading their own literature in context.”
You are twisting things here Donald. As I explained, just because I haven’t read a whole WT book from beginning to end it doesn’t mean I don’t read in context. When I study a WT topic, I check the wider context of the quote and read many pages of context in fact. Additionally, I will also read what other WT sources have to say on the same subject.
As I also said in the earlier post, just because I haven’t read a WT book from cover to cover it doesn’t mean that I haven’t read the other books I quote from on other subjects on the site. I have explained all of this but you continually seem to be ignoring it for some reason.
Donald said: “I have nothing to hide,”.
Really? Then you won’t mind me going over what you have said publicly then. Unlike you, I will spare you some of the things I remember you said to me in confidence over the phone. You admitted yourself twice on the reachout board that you and ROTW were one and the same person, and Doug can check the ISP as coming from where you live. A careful analysis of the writing also reveals it to be you. I can also supply the relevant documentation for every single thing that I say which follows below, so be careful what you attempt to deny.
Is it not true that as well as believing the Kingdom Hall meetings are “boring” that you also said that “they could be made more interesting.”?
You said you would rather sit in the sun with a book than attend your own district conventions.
You have no problem posting on a message board with ex-JWs on it even though you know that the Watchtower forbids this.
You have no problem being labeled “an apostate” yourself, if people want to use that term of you. Yet you arrogantly persist in dismissing others with the same word!
That you do not agree with all of the Watchtower’s present teachings, and think that they are wrong in some areas.
That you think that “many” of the Watchtower’s interpretations of end time prophesy will need to be changed, and is “highly provisional”.
That you believe that much of the Watchtower’s teachings on the last few chapters of Daniel will need to be revised.
That you believe that the Watchtower Society is wrong about the 144,000 being a literal number. Instead, you believe that this number is symbolic of a group of people who are numberless.
You think that it is “ludicrous” to use the expression "little flock" in John 12 in support of the doctrine of the 144 000 (this also directly contradicts an email you sent me after making this statement where you claimed otherwise). You also call this teaching “untenable”. Additionally, you have stated that the accounts in Acts and history strongly suggests that there were far more than 144, 000 Christians in the first century.
Now bear in mind that none of these things you said under the pseudonym “Ruler of the World” was said in secret. You said all of this, publicly on the Reachout board and admitted that it was you, so I am not breaking confidence here. In fact, many who still post there remember all this quite well and others have also kept what was said.
Angry at me for reminding you of these things? To quote a sentence from your last post: “I have said nothing that is not true”. Have I said anything that is not true of you here? No. However, when you applied that statement to me, you had said things that were not true (as I have shown in this post). Also, you broke confidence from a phone call. Nevertheless, I will spare you by keeping the phone conversations we have had as confidential and other details.
As far I am concerned Donald, we have nothing more to say unless I get an apology from you for trying to drag me into the mud.
A conversation on Harry Potter may have been interesting with you. But you took offence at my ivory tower phrase (again, not even aimed at you), and then began to mock me on my own forum, break confidence, and say things about the research on my site that is totally false. Even so I was willing to apologize to you on their behalf (!!???). Now you maintain that you have done nothing wrong, and tell me that no apology is forthcoming?
Please feel free to contact me when you are being true to yourself and when you need people when the Watchtower let you down (they will). Let’s have ROTW back again. It seemed that when you were on the Reachout board under this name we saw a fresh honesty and sincerity- the real Donald if you will. Not the Watchtower apologist that robotically feels they have to defend an organization that cares little for you. It was only when you had to admit it was you that you eventually seemed to slip back into the old slavish WT apologist mode again. Possibly the word Myopia is appropriate here?
I am willing to forgive and forget this whole unfortunate episode on my board here Donald. But I doubt you are presently willing to hear such a thing anyway. So until a future time, until a brighter day, Donald – goodbye.
Have the last word here if you want. You always have to have it anyway – have it, as long as you do not break the forums rules, which you have already done so really (see forum rules above). People can be booted off for less, their posts deleted, and ISP banned. I will thank you not to phone me or email me in the meantime.
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