VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 14:03:04 01/04/04 Sun
Author: silver
Author Host/IP: cvg-29-4-177.cinci.rr.com / 24.29.4.177
Subject: replies...
In reply to: Doyle 's message, "Some few minor things that just couldn't fit in my long-arse post above..." on 06:08:56 01/04/04 Sun

I'm just going to try to address these - as you said - point by point for simplicity.


Gollum's death: I, too, was moved by it, though he'd pretty much given up any pretense at breaking free of the ring's influence by then. I still felt for him, because he wasn't evil to start with; the ring corrupted him (perhaps more quickly and more easily, to be sure) as it tried to do to everyone else. But yeah, I noticed the gleedful, "happy" expression on his face at finally attaining his precious, and the way he tried to save it when he was burning. Who could fail to be moved by that?

Pippin's song: A) I know what you mean about how it sounded like it was done in a recording studio, but I also remember that he was in a great hall when he was singing it, so I think that could account for the acoustics. B) While I agree with you that the steward's eating was both gross and loud, I think it was kind of necessary, in juxtaposition with Faramir (and yeah, that's who I meant ;) ) and his men riding out to certain doom. So while I didn't like the steward much in that scene, I loved Pippin and Faramir in that scene, and I love the way it was shot (the scene). *Listens to the song again*


Let's hear it again for the character sketches at the end of the movie. They *did* rock!

I certainly agree with you that a lot went into the battles, including the one with the catapults and the elephant thingies (Olyphants, Oliphants, whatever...I can't remember how it was spelled in the book, but I suspect your way is correct, because you're a stickler for things like that ;) ). While I said it wasn't my favorite, and didn't stick out in my mind as much as the ones in TTT, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't still excellent. It just - to me - wasn't *quite* as vivid.

And while I liked Eowyn a hell of a lot more in this fic (mostly because she finally gets around to doing something, instead of standing around whining bitterly and playing ice queen while she yearns for Aragorn), and liked that she got to be the one to slay Shredder (though of course, I knew she would), I coulda lived without her "I am no man!" thing. She just...lacked the punch, I think, that another actress might have been able to deliver, there. It sounded corny coming from her.

Heh...Legolas and the Oliphant. I, too, was amused by Gimli's observation as to how many it counted as. Did you notice Legolas still counting bad guys he killed even when he's climing up the back of the beast? Cracked me up!

"*Speaking of Gimli being amusing, *I* found his one liners/jokes much more commical in this film than TTT." - I agree. In the first movie I really didn't like him much at all, really. He was like, too klingon, or something. He was always going on about Dwarf honor, and everything he had to say had something to do with his being a dwarf, or how he didn't like elves, blah blah. The second movie was more of the same, but he was at least funnier about it (i.e. "Don't tell the elf"). In this one he just seemed more *friendly*, which was - naturally - the way it was supposed to have been portrayed, so kudos to the dude who played Gimli.

Heh...one note about that, though. When I went to see the flick on opening night (after already having seen the run-through), I was with my sister. When Gimli said he never thought he'd die alongside an elf, and Legolas replied "how about alongside a friend?" (or to that effect), I said kind of aside to my sister "How about alongside a hottie?". On my other side, there was a woman sitting that I did not know, but apparently she heard me because she stifled a laugh. Hee.

"*Again, I agree, Gandalf kicking arse. You do mean (in particular) that bit where he was whirling his staff and sword around at one point, ya? If not, well, that's when I was thinking, "Oh yeah, go Gandalf!" " Ya, that's the part I meant ;) I was also digging his "General" role, where he was leading the defense of Minis Truth. I also liked him bopping the steward on the head with his staff, and then later beating him down with the hooves of his horse.


Heh @ "All Sauron did was be a lighthouse".

I'm actually not surprised that you were expecting to see a main character or two die (besides Frodo's rather ambiguous journey to the after life). While I wouldn't say you're bloodthirsty (that is, after all, my job ;) ), you do usually want things to be realistic, in the sense that in real battles, in real life, people die, and it's a little unrealistic to expect all of the main characters to survive. You've said as much to me before, re: Buffy. If I remember correctly, you were also angling to have some character death in our season 7 for that reason, so that's why I angled for Anya to bite it ;) And hey, in that respect we did pretty well, didn't we? :)


"It was all very nice to see him make the big ugly back off and such but was it really wise of him to leave Frodo wrapped up in spiderweb for the orcs who happened by? " - Well, dude, he didn't know Frodo was alive! Plus he only had a moment in between when he heard the voices, and when the orcs came out and discovered Frodo's body; there wasn't really time to move him anywhere. Staying to defend what he thought was a dead body would only have gotten him killed, and he knew that the really important thing (in the grand scheme) was to get that ring destroyed. So he did the only thing he *could* have known to do at that time, which was to take the ring and hope for a chance to destroy it himself.

As for the Sean Bean credit...I thought that was kind of odd, too (though I didn't mind too much, because I loved movie-Boromir (more than book Boromir), and it was a great sketch), but I thought it was either due to A) the fact that he did have a little screen time in the third movie, even though it was in flashback form, or B) that they were mostly crediting the actors of the characters as a whole, like...from the trilogy, instead of just RotK. I think I like that explanation, too, because it makes you come away with even more of a sense of closure and completeness.


As for Frodo's journey, I did indeed know that it wasn't another adventure he was sailing off to (although from what Gandalf said to Pippin, death IS kind of another adventure). Again, though, I'd read the books before hand and so had a pretty good grasp of what was going on beyond what was shown on the screen. But your parents were right.

Basically, as we're told even from the very first movie, the world is kind of moving on. We come in when the elves are already starting their migration out of middle earth, and "going into the west" (a practice which Stephen King obviously lifted and adapted for his own epic series, "The Dark Tower"). So the world is already changing, and the older, more fairy-tale-like stuff is on its way out. The time for men and mankind and industry is rising. So it makes perfect sense for Elrond and Galadriel and her stud muffin to all be leaving on that last ship, based upon what we already knew.

Being a wizard, Gandalf would naturally be included in this sort of, "moving on", so it makes sense for him to be there also, especially after what he said in the TTT about how he's come back to see this done.

Frodo's being there was about moving on, too. Or "passing on", if you want to liken it to death, which it kind of is. Or just..."diminished", as Galadriel put it. Less than what they are now. Anyway, the basic thing you're supposed to come away from it with is that you can't go through everything Frodo did, and have so much taken out of him, and not have it have any effect on him. He was forever scarred and changed by not only what the ring did to him, but by the journey, and the journey within himself. As he said, "How do you pick up the threads of an old life?" He just wasn't the same person any more, and he couldn't pretend to be. There was no real place for him, any more. He was more than the person he'd been at the start of the journey (which, honestly, all of them were...but he'd been through the most. His role as the bearer of the ring forever changed who he was, fundamentally, whereas everyone else's journey pretty much just strengthened them. Aragorn learned to accept his destiny, Sam found wellsprings of courage in him that he hadn't known he had, Gandalf moved up to the next level, Pippin and Merry found their strength and resolution, etc). Bottom line though, is basically that there can be no victory (at least not in this sort of thing) without sacrifice. Frodo knew that. He fought it for awhile, then despaired against it for awhile, and then ultimately accepted it. He knew it would kill him, in the end, and he still took the job, and that's what makes him the hero.

The song at the end credits: I honestly don't think it made an impression on me. I'm not quite sure what you were expecting? Did it get major play as being the song at the end of RotK, or something?

"I think they're three of the best movies I've seen." - I totally agree! Certainly the best trilogy. Even better than Star Wars, and most DEFINITELY better than the Matrix trilogy (in which, I was severely disappointed).

Okay, I think that's everything, for now. ;)

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:





Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.