Date Posted:13:44:12 05/17/10 Mon Author: Esther Subject: Hey Promise! I’m a little late to the party, but want to welcome you to the lit! This way >>> In reply to:
Promise
's message, "Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal." on 18:48:27 05/08/10 Sat
I’m so glad you’re here, and look forward to more of your excerpts! Generally speaking, the first post isn’t crited per say as it is usually hard enough to click on that send button without worrying about how your writing is going to be taken. What I will do though, is give you some of my impressions as a reader, which hopefully will give you some insights that will help.
Okay, first off, you wondered about the time period being clear. You have the narrative where Gebicar is walking, where it explains he was off conquering new lands and then you mention he is a jarl. So that puts me into the medieval period, and then with the word Valkyrie I’m thinking Norse. But then when I googled those references you gave, it says Nibelunglied is an epic poem in High German. Perhaps if I had a better picture, what they were wearing for instance, it might be clearer. So, I might not be quite sure, but I’m going with Norse Vikings. *G*
Second, you mentioned you didn’t know our ‘policy’ on strong language. It has always been my thinking that these boards are restricted to those under the age of 18, so we’re all adults here, so I’m fine with the words being typed out in full. *G* But as I have read this scene in its entirety, I’m going to suggest that in the future you put up a disclaimer, like you did with the strong language, stating it has suggestive scenes or perhaps that it is NSFW (not safe for work), just to give a heads up if reading that kind of thing isn’t your cup of tea. Oh and a general disclaimer at the top to protect yourself is a good idea too.
But as for the language, as I said, I have no problem with it. But here, I did notice that the first words Gebicar said were along the lines of we’ll stop here because I have to have a shit. Okay, maybe that was true. But what about it being a good place, you know with water around so they could fill their canteens/pouches or whatever. Did it offer shade? Something besides a good latrine? Because this is my first impression of him, stating his intent and marching into the bush to leave a pile of crap. And then too, I’m wondering what he wiped his ass with. In this case, I think it’s possible to get the point across without him saying it, or me as a reader, seeing him squatting in the trees. Same with the guys having a piss. I think you can show the men going about their morning routines without me having to visualize the stream of urine. Believe me; I know the pose well enough. *G* My view on strong language, and bodily functions, is to use them when and where it will have impact. Here I just don’t think it adds to the scene. Just my opinion, and remember you are free to ignore me.
And okay, I’ve debated whether I should mention this or not, but what the heck, you have to get used to me sooner or later. *G* Now, I don’t think myself as being a prude, not by any means. But those last three paragraphs threw me for a loop. Now this is the first excerpt of yours I read, and so I’m making some assumptions.
The first assumption being about your intent. I believe I was suppost to have a reaction like holy crap! I had a reaction alright, and I don’t think it’s what you wanted. It was like I was taken out of the epic and thrust into a porn flick. I can and usually read everything, but this, because of the language, and the dialogue, not to mention the visuals themselves, is more vivid than anything else in the scene. I personally don’t consider this erotic and I can easily see where it could be considered crude, and as such has the potential to offend some readers, so you really need to be aware of your target audience. Just something to be aware of.
My second assumption is about the characters. I think Dagmær is going a major player, basing this assumption on the fact Gebicar was going to ‘have” her, and this doesn’t shed a very good light on her. IMO. But as it’s my opinion that keeps me reading, I have to say that this was her introduction to me and this compromising position she was caught in, might influence my thinking enough to not continue turning the page. Second, Baldür. That’s his wife that’s pregnant, and I have the impression that he was gone on his campaigning for quite a while, enhanced by the fact they are afoot, travelling would be slow if nothing else, so my question is who the heck has she been sleeping with. Couple that with the fact that she walks into the room, sees her husband’s sister acting the whore with numerous men, (and apparently enjoying it and eager to have two more join in) with her daughter at her skirts, and she behaves as if this ‘activity’ is normal. And why the heck is Baldur’s sister there anyway? Why isn’t she at her Uncle’s? Where are the two cousins? Are they part of this as well? What is this anyway? A house of ill-repute? Prolly not the welcome home party any of the men expected. And that reminds me, they were walking, and so I assume a group of victorious warriors returning to the village would arouse some sort of reaction from the people wouldn’t it? How late did they arrive? And even if it was late, I don’t imagine the group of men was quiet because they were ready for women, song, food and ale in no particular order. Conquering heroes don’t sneak in the back door. Besides they are bloodied from the hunt, their arousal is high, and damn it, they’ve just come home.
Now clearly, I have questions, and it’s those questions that have the potential to keep me reading. And just to clarify, no, I wasn’t offended by the whole three on one thing going on, I just think that sometimes subtle is better than shoving something a bit more than suggestive in someone else's face.
Given the anger Baldur has displayed, and your focus on him, it’s his reaction I wonder about. Also, from his reaction and consequent brawl with Bui, I get Baldur is a warrior with every fibre of his being. This is more than a smear against his name. Honour is at stake. Women were chattel and maidens obeyed the man of the house. Not only is his 16 year old sister no longer a maiden, nor married, she’s not at her uncle’s. His wife is sprouting the seed of another man. And as the story started with Gebicar, I assumed this was his scene and so I wonder about the switch of focus on the characters. I know more about Balder, or have made assumptions based on what you showed us, than I have seen or assumed about Gebicar. What comes to mind when I think Gebicar is that he’s kind to his daughter. He wants sons and an heir. And the woman he wanted to wed could very well be sporting her own belly bumb as a result of the seed of some other nameless man. I’d like to see his reaction as well.
Okay, way more than I intended to say on our first meeting, but there you have it. The ol’ use what you can, toss the rest is, as always, your option. It’s your story, and the effort you’ve put into the research shows your dedication. All in all, an exceptional first post! I'd love to read more!
I’m so glad you’re here, and look forward to more of your excerpts! Generally speaking, the first post isn’t crited per say as it is usually hard enough to click on that send button without worrying about how your writing is going to be taken. What I will do though, is give you some of my impressions as a reader, which hopefully will give you some insights that will help.
Hey, if my writing gets torn to shreds, then that’s because I didn’t do my job. At least w/ the internet it’s not as hard as sitting across the table from someone who’s taking your writing apart. :0)
Okay, first off, you wondered about the time period being clear. You have the narrative where Gebicar is walking, where it explains he was off conquering new lands and then you mention he is a jarl. So that puts me into the medieval period, and then with the word Valkyrie I’m thinking Norse. But then when I googled those references you gave, it says Nibelunglied is an epic poem in High German. Perhaps if I had a better picture, what they were wearing for instance, it might be clearer. So, I might not be quite sure, but I’m going with Norse Vikings. *G*
Gotcha, need more descriptive info.
Just in case you’re interested, the Nibelunglied was written in High German, but the events in the story take place during the Migration Period, aka Late Antiquity, aka Early Middle Ages, so, around 300-500 BCE. Vikings actually didn’t exist yet. However, some of the German peoples (the barbarians according to Rome) share a common ancestry with the people who became the Vikings. Ancient German gods/beliefs were the basis for the Norse gods. So, they’re really all kind of the same people. So, yeah, confusing.
Second, you mentioned you didn’t know our ‘policy’ on strong language. It has always been my thinking that these boards are restricted to those under the age of 18, so we’re all adults here, so I’m fine with the words being typed out in full. *G* But as I have read this scene in its entirety, I’m going to suggest that in the future you put up a disclaimer, like you did with the strong language, stating it has suggestive scenes or perhaps that it is NSFW (not safe for work), just to give a heads up if reading that kind of thing isn’t your cup of tea. Oh and a general disclaimer at the top to protect yourself is a good idea too.
Good idea. I’ll keep that in mind.
But as for the language, as I said, I have no problem with it. But here, I did notice that the first words Gebicar said were along the lines of we’ll stop here because I have to have a shit. Okay, maybe that was true. But what about it being a good place, you know with water around so they could fill their canteens/pouches or whatever. Did it offer shade? Something besides a good latrine? Because this is my first impression of him, stating his intent and marching into the bush to leave a pile of crap. And then too, I’m wondering what he wiped his ass with. In this case, I think it’s possible to get the point across without him saying it, or me as a reader, seeing him squatting in the trees. Same with the guys having a piss. I think you can show the men going about their morning routines without me having to visualize the stream of urine. Believe me; I know the pose well enough. *G* My view on strong language, and bodily functions, is to use them when and where it will have impact. Here I just don’t think it adds to the scene. Just my opinion, and remember you are free to ignore me.
Totally good point. I think I’ve resorted to crude language in an effort to make them seem rough, which is really a cheap trick.
And okay, I’ve debated whether I should mention this or not, but what the heck, you have to get used to me sooner or later. *G* Now, I don’t think myself as being a prude, not by any means. But those last three paragraphs threw me for a loop. Now this is the first excerpt of yours I read, and so I’m making some assumptions.
The first assumption being about your intent. I believe I was suppost to have a reaction like holy crap! I had a reaction alright, and I don’t think it’s what you wanted. It was like I was taken out of the epic and thrust into a porn flick. I can and usually read everything, but this, because of the language, and the dialogue, not to mention the visuals themselves, is more vivid than anything else in the scene. I personally don’t consider this erotic and I can easily see where it could be considered crude, and as such has the potential to offend some readers, so you really need to be aware of your target audience. Just something to be aware of.
My second assumption is about the characters. I think Dagmær is going a major player, basing this assumption on the fact Gebicar was going to ‘have” her, and this doesn’t shed a very good light on her. IMO. But as it’s my opinion that keeps me reading, I have to say that this was her introduction to me and this compromising position she was caught in, might influence my thinking enough to not continue turning the page. Second, Baldür. That’s his wife that’s pregnant, and I have the impression that he was gone on his campaigning for quite a while, enhanced by the fact they are afoot, travelling would be slow if nothing else, so my question is who the heck has she been sleeping with. Couple that with the fact that she walks into the room, sees her husband’s sister acting the whore with numerous men, (and apparently enjoying it and eager to have two more join in) with her daughter at her skirts, and she behaves as if this ‘activity’ is normal. And why the heck is Baldur’s sister there anyway? Why isn’t she at her Uncle’s? Where are the two cousins? Are they part of this as well? What is this anyway? A house of ill-repute? Prolly not the welcome home party any of the men expected. And that reminds me, they were walking, and so I assume a group of victorious warriors returning to the village would arouse some sort of reaction from the people wouldn’t it? How late did they arrive? And even if it was late, I don’t imagine the group of men was quiet because they were ready for women, song, food and ale in no particular order. Conquering heroes don’t sneak in the back door. Besides they are bloodied from the hunt, their arousal is high, and damn it, they’ve just come home.
Now clearly, I have questions, and it’s those questions that have the potential to keep me reading. And just to clarify, no, I wasn’t offended by the whole three on one thing going on, I just think that sometimes subtle is better than shoving something a bit more than suggestive in someone else's face.
Given the anger Baldur has displayed, and your focus on him, it’s his reaction I wonder about. Also, from his reaction and consequent brawl with Bui, I get Baldur is a warrior with every fibre of his being. This is more than a smear against his name. Honour is at stake. Women were chattel and maidens obeyed the man of the house. Not only is his 16 year old sister no longer a maiden, nor married, she’s not at her uncle’s. His wife is sprouting the seed of another man. And as the story started with Gebicar, I assumed this was his scene and so I wonder about the switch of focus on the characters. I know more about Balder, or have made assumptions based on what you showed us, than I have seen or assumed about Gebicar. What comes to mind when I think Gebicar is that he’s kind to his daughter. He wants sons and an heir. And the woman he wanted to wed could very well be sporting her own belly bumb as a result of the seed of some other nameless man. I’d like to see his reaction as well.
Okay, yeah, the thin w/ Dagmær *is* supposed to be shocking, but I can see that I’ve probably pushed it too far. I definitely don’t want the reader to be taken out of the story by this scene. So I’ve got some work to do there.
I think part of the problem is that I don’t have a very clear idea in my head of who Gebicar is. I hadn’t intended for Baldur to become so prominent, but he just kinda took over…IYKWIM…
Obviously I’ve left some things (Dagmær has returned to her brother’s house for the purpose of being married to Gebicar…they’ve been gone a while, but Baldur’s wife is very pregnant and with his child and she’s very much freaked out by walking in on the scene) rather muddled.
Okay, way more than I intended to say on our first meeting, but there you have it. The ol’ use what you can, toss the rest is, as always, your option. It’s your story, and the effort you’ve put into the research shows your dedication. All in all, an exceptional first post! I'd love to read more!
Thank you so much! You’ve really taken a lot of time and thought to give me some great feedback and I’m extremely appreciative!
