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susiej, 19:54:43 01/25/10 Mon
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susiej, 10:27:43 01/29/10 Fri
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I always want more. >>> -- Esther, 12:43:13 01/30/10 Sat
I think querying agents has made me become obsessed with brevity. I hear so often "too big a word count" "I delete any query with a word count over 120k" "Any word count over 100 is bloated, I guarantee" etc, etc. I mean heck- we're any of us counting words in Outlander? Thornbirds? Some stories are just big.
Well, I don’t count words, that’s for sure. In fact I found Outlander, er…Dragonfly in Amber actually, because I was looking for a BIG book to last me through the week at the inlaws. I read the time travel thing on the back, and I knew it was for me. Even if I realized quite early on in the book that it was the second one, I was hooked. And even now, when I’m browsing in a bookstore, I open the book up and judge the size of the font and I look at the number of pages, because I feel sometimes like I’m getting ripped off. Now it’s not just the size that appeals to me, though, but I won’t get into all that here, but I do like to have flesh and blood on the bones tossed to me in any story.
From the writer’s perspective, yes, I can see that some stories can be justifiably big. And since getting published isn’t in my plans, I don’t personally worry about my word count at all. Well…okay, I do try to cut out what I can, and don’t use dialogue tags, etc, etc, but still, I don’t feel any pressure to put any of my stories into a restricted format, because that’s what I think it is. Restricting. And if I do choose to limit my voice, yes, perhaps my stories are going to be…less. One of my characters is a battered woman. Would I be able to show her progression from a scared, submissive individual who doesn’t believe she deserves better to a self-confident woman who won’t put up with abuse in any form in a mere 100 000 words? I wouldn’t even dream of trying. So I guess it’s a good thing my writing is going nowhere. *G*
As far as the agents go, I can see why they’d want to impose limits on word count. I imagine it would be more difficult to promote a book that was more than the standard length. Yet, the agent is, and remember this is my inexperienced little world, a representative of the author. If I was looking for one, would I want to go with one that admits they delete a query for books over a certain word count without reading any of it? Or who states that just because it’s over 100 it’s bloated? Without giving the book, or me as an author, a chance? Hmmmm. Call me naïve, but the technical quality of writing, the style, POV, the character’s development, theme, and undeniably, the story itself is/are important and I don’t like to think I have to follow certain rules if what I attempt is to be successful. Is that how success is measured? By the following behind all the others who obeyed the implied rules?
I had an agent recently tell me she "liked my premise and enjoyed my sample chapters but hadn't fallen in love with my characters the way she wanted to." I was thinking- WTF woman, how can you not love Edan? I wonder sometimes if I've lost my voice in trying so hard to write "tight."
Well…hmmm. I think I’m taking offence on your behalf. I find this to be a rather broad criticism with no real reason for not liking it besides the fact it didn’t fit the mould she wanted it to. I think it would have been more constructive if you could actually use her comment to understand and perhaps ‘fix’ what she thought was wrong with it instead of being left wondering what was wrong with Edan. What way did she want? What would have made her fall in love with them?
If you wonder if you’ve lost your voice by trying to write ‘tight’ you probably have. And I think there is a difference between writing tight, and cutting out material that would make the characters more real to us, more able to identify with them. You’ve deleted dreams for the sake of word count, and I’m working under the impression that dreams weren’t the only thing to go. I’ve read some of your story, but not enough to form any opinion on it, so I can’t offer any viewpoint there. But as the creators of these worlds our characters live in, I think it’s up to us as the author to write it to the best of our ability and be true to the story and the characters themselves. And I’m not saying that we should disregard any suggestions, but in the end, it’s our heart’s work on the line. The investment of ourselves that make these stories the best they can be. I used to think that as the author, I knew my characters best and could tell whether something in the story worked or not. The more I write the more I realize these words I type are open to interpretation, most of the time taking on meaning I never would have thought about. I believe that sometimes I’m just to close to these voices that I can’t see the forest for the trees and have come to value and rely on the perceptions of others to make sure I have it ‘right’. Have you had any beta readers read both the original and condensed versions? The sample chapters you sent to the agent? Do they agree or disagree? What’s the specific reason for thinking that way?
Okay, think I’ve rambled enough, and if I type I think one more time my head is going to shatter. *G* But just out of curiosity, what was the original word count before you started to eliminate some of it?
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>>>> -- susiej, 11:17:15 02/01/10 Mon
The original ms in full was over 300k. It's really a trilogy. But when i got the idea, I just sat and wrote until the tale was done. Not thinking publication. Then after a reader who I'd not even asked to read it (a teen who picked it up off her mom's bedside table) said "wow, this is way better than Twilight" I thought, hmm, maybe I'll try.
I think having the series done, absolutely complete in 3 is a plus. How many of us are sick to death of waiting for Martin's next book? I've actually lost interest in the story he rambled so much in that last 800 pages. Ditto for Christopher Paolini's trilogy that's turned into a soon to be released quad. However, HE can do what he wants. As an unpubbed nobody, I have to sell one book first. And I'm told my first book is too long at 110. It's really made me ponder "the system" of gatekeepers. I've heard agents say writers like DG would never make it today. What might we be missing???
But as I said, in my interview. Whether its ever pubbed or not, I sure had fun writing it.
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Better late than never (being sick does have one advantage)>>> -- Lady Morilka, 09:48:00 03/02/10 Tue
>Rose dreamt of the wheel at the Mill endlessly
>turning, turning, while the water ran on finding its
>way to the sea. Slowly, the wheel turned
I stumble acrosses that "turned" here because I am still in the turning of the wheel and not thinking about the wheel turning INTO something. Maybe another word would be more fitting here like ie "changed"
into great
>wooden doors opening wide. Seven silver stars shone
>above them. Rose passed through toward the sounds of
>music and laughter. The doors shut behind her and
>turned back into the wheel, turning, endlessly
>turning, while the water ran on to the sea. Rose could
>hear it, but could not see it.The music faded. The
>laughter died. The stars above the doors went out.
>Eyes came in their place. Eyes not like stars or
>flame. They gleamed like a predator’s.
I really like this dream, in books, dreams are often too clear for my taste, I like the changing of the setting here. and exebt for that one remark, it is great.
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susiej, 16:09:03 01/26/10 Tue
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I do too! -- Debi, 06:16:51 01/27/10 Wed
That's where I got the idea for his, though he's much more detail-oriented than I am. I have a combo of the dreams sometimes, late for a class, can't get into the locker to get the book for said class and can't find the room it's held in. Those stress me out!
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Oh I detest those kinds! -- Esther, 08:48:47 01/29/10 Fri
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Lassie>>> -- susiej, 11:22:07 02/01/10 Mon
great work as always. So glad to have ya back! When I read that prompt line, I thought to myself- that is just so sad. And you've fleshed it out perfectly. How did you get in my mind? LOL! Seriously, very everyman but full of wonderful specific details. And every line smooth as silk.
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Re: Class is back in session ;-) -- Lady Morilka, 10:11:35 03/02/10 Tue
>My back hurts, my groggy inner voice says so I
>readjust my position.
>
>That's better, it says but I try not to get too
>comfortable, I know my alarm will go off in another
>ten to fifteen minutes.
>
>Do I lay here and relax or do I just get up now and
>start the day?
>
>If I get up now I can take a few extra minutes and
>check my facebook before work. But if I stay in bed
>under my warm comforter I can forestall my feet from
>having to endure the cold shock of the tile floor.
>
>A ten to fifteen minute forestall sounds pretty good
>to my feet. I snuggle back under my blankets and try
>to relax, I listen to my breathing as I try to calm my
>mind but I am very quickly reminded that I can't
>relax. Relaxing tends to bring about that inner voice
>that connects one innocent little thought to another
>thought and so on until you are thinking about only
>those thoughts that you aren't ready to think about.
Until here, it feelt like my typical morning discussion with myself. Big breakfeast without haste or a few more moments ind bed... brakfeast or a few more miniutes... arg, to late for breakfast again ;)
>
>I change my facebook status, to some generic quote I
>find on quotes.com, something about being positive,
>blah, blah.
from here on it already felt depressing to me, although I was still unsure why, maybe because one has to find a quote instead of telling the truth, don't know.
>
>The morning is uneventful, I shower, I dress, I line
>my eyes and lips with same old color palette.
>
>At work everyone smiles at me. I get compliments about
>my clothes and make-up. The same crap I've been
>wearing everyday is suddenly more becoming.
Great! Showes how much some people care and observe, or rather don't.
>
>I get to my desk and I work. I am so focused I nearly
>work through my lunch. Luckily, I have a stash of
>power bars in my drawer for this very reason. I
>continue on in the same manner until quitting time.
>
>I have a whole stack of files to take home with me.
>Things left over from my leave of absence.
>
>At home, I pop a Lean Cuisine in the microwave. I
>don't particularly like frozen dinners, not a whole
>lot of variety for a vegetarian but no point in
>cooking just for me. I used to love to cook.
>
>I turn on the news, a little entertainment while I
>eat. Another car crash, another fire, people dying,
>people losing the ones they love. It's too much. I
>turn it off.
Love that, so real!
>I take my fettucini to my desk and get back to work.
>
>Sometimes I think I work so hard because I don't have
>anything else to do.
I like the wording in this piece, so without any compassion. From the objectiv parts (times spend on the different things) that could totally be me, but the tone is so depressing from early on, that I even consider myself lucky, if only for a moment, than the wishing for something different comes back. Really great work!
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