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Monday, June 17, 07:47:48am [ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4], 5, 6 ]

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Date Posted: 20:25:45 10/21/03 Tue
Author: plaidwallaby
Subject: just a quick note (m)
In reply to: plaidwallaby 's message, "Go read this article, then tell me what you think. I have some comments about it and how it relates to our grief and mourning (m)" on 21:50:27 10/20/03 Mon

i'd like to pull apart this whole article to emphasize what I read in it. But basically what I want to say is that the gospel is *intended* to be here for us. The Savior's example was to mourn *with* those who mourn. I am tired,so tired, of people who mourn for me. Or rather at this point two years later, mourned for me. But who has mourned with me? The part of the article about administering *and* ministering i think reflects how it is supposed to work. My RS pres even asked if I'd considered therapy! Well, has she considered the ministering aspect of her calling? Have my VT considered theirs? And if so, many many many less women in the church would have to rely on non-gospel sources for healing. They could turn to the love and charity in the life of the Savior through his Gospel for healing. yeah. that's all for now. more later maybe.

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Replies:

[> [> OK - I think I get where you are coming from in regards...m -- Joanne, 08:19:23 10/22/03 Wed

To the article. In what you said, I do agree - there is a fine line between the 2 statements of ministering and administering, mourning for and mourning with. If I look back, there are few within the church who mourned with me - and of those, all were women who had travelled the same path as I was suddenly on.

Have you considered explaining it to your RS President just as you did here? I think if it was put to her, along with the article, just the way you stated it, it might be a great teaching tool for her and for many future women within the RS itself.

When people say to me that the plan is wonderful and whatever - there is actually a family here who had a stillborn son and always talk about it as though it were a blessing - I remind them that before Jesus raised Lazarus, he was in terrible pain because of the pain the death had inflicted upon the family. He mourned WITH them and wasn't all happy - and who knew the plan better than Christ Himself? No one - and yet he still mourned.

Marie, sending you many big hugs sweetheart -

J


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[> [> [> sadly, joanne, i've said directly to the RS pres about mouring w/ vs. mourning for (m) -- plaidwallaby, 08:29:30 10/22/03 Wed

it's been several months. in fact about a month ago she said to me that she really understands what I've been trying to teach her about mourning *with*. And yet, I see no proof that she gets it. It was *after* she told me she understood that she asked if I'd considered therapy. I really believe that if the gospel worked. If people really understood it. If it wasn't just "the motions" for people, not tied up in the administration aspect, we'd never be told our babies don't count. We wouldn't be asked to "move on". We wouldn't be expected to need therapy because two years later at the time of the anniversary of my son's death, I'm grieving so much that I *must* be in need of therapy - not in need of a good hug, or prayers, or a listening ear, or a mention of my son's name...

it's my bitterness.

I hope that I can learn to never treat anyone else the way that has hurt me so much. Yet, I'm sure I'm not perfect either. I really try not to hold this bitterness against anyone, but it is very abrasive to my own soul.

Love, Marie


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[> [> [> [> Oh sweetie, I know - and it is so hard to be this far away....m -- Joanne, 12:26:34 10/22/03 Wed

Knowing what I know and not be able to give you what you need. Sometimes the internet is really good and sometimes it just points out to me the flaws of still not being able to 'be there'.

I love you sweetie - you know I do - and it is OK to mourn, even after 2 years time. It is a part of you that is very much alive, even though that part of your heart died. I guess not every one will understand and the only thing I can guess is that her comfort level is far from what the Saviour would expect it to be.

J


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[> [> Only days after LIttle Jon was gone I got a call asking if I'd done my VT for that month! -- lynece, 12:11:38 10/24/03 Fri

I replied my baby just died I'm sorry I didn't have time. And then bawled for hours. We had only moved in 6 months before and the ward had been split once by then as well. I only knew two neighbors and that's because we built our houses together. I never got anything from the RS, no meals, cards, visits, nothing! But my Bishop and his wife came up to us one Sunday and after expressing their sympathy asked to come over soon. I said sure. A few days later Michelle (wife) calls and says Carl is so busy, I'm just going to come by myself. I thought this was weird, but was glad to have her come. It turns out that she herself had had a fullterm stillborn son several years before. She brought me poems that she had written and others that helped her. She held me and we both cried. That first Christmas she made ceramic angel ornaments for both my babies. She told me about buying dishes at thrift stores just for the pleasure of throwing them against a wall to get her frustrations out. They moved 5 years ago and I've seen them several times since. She has 8 living kids by now I think.

After reading this article and your posts I think the reason that you can't mourn with someone is that without having suffered a similar loss it is impossible. You can sympathize, but not empathize unless you have really been there. I agree that church members should try to do more, but I can't fault them for only doing what they think will help.

L.


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