VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, [9], 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 05:25:03 11/02/05 Wed
Author: manwitch
Subject: Our difference is just too fundamental I guess
In reply to: Finn Mac Cool 's message, "Re: very funny" on 17:04:51 11/01/05 Tue

Again, I think our differences are really fundamental.

Look, when someone cheats on their partner, betrays their trust, and I think its fair to say what Riley was doing with the Vamp fits in this category, they can plan on sleeping on the couch that night. If, having been caught, their response is to go on a five year vacation, then they have no interest in continuing the relationship regardless of what they say. If they do want the relationship to continue, they are willing to surrender what may or may not be their last chance at rejoining the military in favor of working on the relationship. You can't work on the relationship if your not together. Riley's ultimatum is ipso facto a declaration that he is done with the relationship. Nothing Buffy can say will change that. She knows it, which is why she doesn't say it. See, if their relationship was going well, Buffy would not tell Riley to stay. She would give him self-determination. So for him to pretend that this decision, that he has clearly already made and which is only his to make, actually depends on her is just an incredibly disingenuous way of trying yet again to knuckle her under.

Riley did not leave the military for Buffy. His awareness of Buffy and Buffy's values and the way Buffy fought for the right vs. the way the military did may have played into his decision. But there was no "Buffy I love you I'm leaving the military." Nor did she ever put that on him. Buffy never discouraged him from participating in the fight. She asked him not to go alone after she herself had just nearly been killed. That's not out of line.

If you watch the episodes again and try not to hear whatever Riley or Xander says as gospel truth, you might see that they are sooooo wroonngggggg. You will notice that Buffy forgives her attemtped murder by Riley's boss, she forgives Riley's attack on Willow and other moments when commando interference threatened willow's life. She forgives numerous unjustifiable moments of abuse from Riley, including a gun pointed in her face. She forgives his sleeping with her arch enemy. Through all of this, she loves him, does the down and dirty with him, gets him the help he needs, busts him out of prison, and asks him, repeatedly, to be of integral help in the fight. She has to go fight Adam, but stops to save Riley first and lets him know that she needs his help.

Later, when Buffy's sister is the key and a hell god is threatening her and her mom is dying, Buffy asks Riley to watch Dawn and to not make Buffy cry. Riley is incapable of doing this. He wants to blather on about his masculinity, which, again if you watch all the episodes of their relationship, is of primary concern to Riley throughout. He is the man. He has a poster of balls on his door. So what about what Graham said. Graham's a dick from the military that Riley had left behind. Of course he's gonna needle Riley to get what he wants. That Riley can be manipulated in that way is a comment on Riley, not on how Buffy treats him.

I just don't see how people believe Riley's complaint that Buffy disengaged from him. If the writer's meant that, I think they blew it. When you have an arguably feminist show with an arguably strong female character, you can't suddenly throw in traditional relationship power dynamics and expect them to be taken at face value. Buffy had been there for Riley through his many times of need, she had been very forgiving of his MANY shortcomings, and she had told him reasonably specifically in her times of stress what she needed from him.

Riley's response to that is to cheat on her, give her an ultimatum, and claim that she's pushing him away and people believe him?!?!

Like I said, it must be fundamental. I recognize that your view exists and that many people share it. But its like its in arabic or something. I just can't translate it into something I can make sense of.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.