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Date Posted: 17:32:57 10/02/03 Thu
Author: Dan G.
Subject: A picture tells a thousand words!!
In reply to: Terry Magee 's message, "Re: To everyone who has posted here...." on 15:34:40 10/02/03 Thu

Hey Ed, I believe you. Thanks for bringing it up. I'm sure many benefited from Angela's post.

Hi Angela, Great post!!!!!

Kbharbert, I think we see eye to eye on many things. Keep up the good posts!!


Terry, Terry, Terry,

You saaaiiid,

"The point of my post was to let people know that experts feel that demodex is caused by immune system deficiences that are congenitally passed from parents to pups. Even Lori's lengthy article about nutrition as treatment states that the immune system weakness is congenital."

I was under the impression that congenital meant that it is formed early in life, before or after birth but not through genes like your "congenitally passed from parents to pups" statement seems to infer.

"It does irritate me to see all mention of Nala's health problems swept under the rug when someone should be truthful enough after the information I posted to tell everyone here who her parents are and that the best course when considering a puppy from them would be extreme caution."

I would have to agree with you on this, but no one has said that they will reproduce the same mating pair or that it had happened before with the same mating pair or even that they knew that the sire or dam had demodex.

But then you go on to say this,

"No dog that has had demodex should be bred to produce pups who will have a lack of immunity to an infestation."

There are no black and whites in breeding!! You will never have a perfect dog and if you strive to only breed perfect dogs, then you should not be breeding. Should you breed a dog with demodex? Or a dog with fair hips? Or a dog with a strong prey drive? This is the art of breeding. Making the best EDUCATED GUESS as to which pair should be bred together shows your programs success. I'm not speaking on behalf of JB, but any decent breeder that has any problems show up in their litters will see it as an obstacle to overcome. You don't eliminate an extraordinary specimen from a program because of one problem. It depends on so many things and you should know better. For the same reason that I thought Melinda's breeding was justified, I would say the same thing for the breeding of a dog with demodex. BUT, the breeder should always let the buyer know about their experiment and the reasons why they have done so, and the breeder should limit the amount of puppies they need to sell from the litter. And whatever they do sell, should be tracked by the breeder to check on what the dam and sire are throwing. I don't know what the specifics were in JB's case was with this pair, but I feel confident in saying that he is probably not ignoring it. These are just my personal thoughts and I have never bred as of yet, one of the reasons being because of the extreme responsibility that goes into it, ESPECIALLY with a rare breed such as the Boerboel. If we were talking about a breed with a much larger gene pool then I would definately say that the dog should not be bred, but vets throw out blanket statements like this because it does apply to the majority of the cases. But breeders such as yourself should know better, especially since you will probably be in the same position yourself one day.

I have to hand it to you, with exception to your redundant attack on JB, you had some decent points, but then you threw it all into the crapper with this next statement,

"These are people that I have seen post on boards or advertise on their web pages about bite work and bite-restraining livestock. They are David Harris, John Blackwell, Sanctuary Kennels, Shadow Wolf Ranch and Dan Huffman."

You shouldn't speak about subjects you do not understand. You don't like working dogs or working dog sports? Fine, then don't get into them. But don't negatively comment on them, their participants or their supporters because of some assumptions that you have concluded out of a limited amount of information.

To any newbie who cares to listen to this. The best sign that I have ever seen of a good breeder is a breeder with an open mind and one that displays their confidence and knowledge by humbly showing you their ignorance. When they know all that there is to the dog world, then they really know much much less than the prior example. At least that has been my experience.


Dan G.

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