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Date Posted: Tue, May 22, 12:33:46pm CST
Author: jerry
Author Host/IP: 74-36-80-41.dr01.crvl.il.frontiernet.net / 74.36.80.41
Subject: Re: About "black" for Sparkieg...
In reply to: david p 's message, "Re: About "black" for Sparkieg..." on Tue, May 22, 12:09:10pm CST

>>Sparkieg...The question about black is really one
>>about "no-trim"...There are solid blacks and dogs
>>without tan or brindle trim and both are cropping up
>>for the same genetic reason.
>>The "no-trim" is not a Leopard trait and it came from
>>the Clark-bred dogs in general, not just Jug. I wish
>>we had included a question about that, but at the time
>>of the survey we didn't have the information to have
>>asked the question properly. Now we know a little
>>more,because we know merle with/trim and black
>>with/trim "Clark-bred" dogs are throwing "no-trim"
>>dogs, which excludes the possibility of its being a
>>"dominant trait. I did not know if it was a
>>"dominant", "recessive", or incomplete dominance. It
>>is pretty clear that it is not a real "dominant" at
>>this time.
>>When you asked (and I am quoting you): "Should all of
>>these dogs out of these litters be single registered
>>or that you you guys that put out the survey have some
>>of these dogs and they don't need to be questined."
>>First... I find this more than a little insulting. I
>>have no way to know what your tone is here, but it is
>>insulting the way it is written, which you may not
>>have intended. Jed and I do each have a double-Jug
>>pup, but this had nothing to do with our not including
>>a question about "no trim". You and I both know people
>>who are in our association who own one or more "brand
>>X" dogs. We have had absolutely nothing to do with any
>>Clark dogs coming into the breed. This is something we
>>inherited. As for Jug specifically, the vote (at the
>>annual meeting) was UNANIMOUS to register Jug, but not
>>with the phony pedigree.
>>I have said for several years that I had never seen a
>>Clark-bred dog that was a bear dog. A couple of guys
>>have criticised me for those statements, in spite of
>>the fact that I have always explained that I had never
>>known of one that had had an adequate chance (to
>>become a bear dog). I want to see for myself if they
>>have the grit. Presently there are four "Clark-bred
>>dogs in the right hands to have the opportunity to
>>prove the "grit" question. I have no reason to believe
>>thay don't have the grit to be a bear dog, but I DO
>>want to see for myself. My owning this "double-Jug"
>>dog is simply my way of giving one of them a chance
>>for my own information. Whether or not I will use this
>>dog or any in my own breeding is still a question. Jed
>>can speak for himself, but I will say that he has
>>owned 3, and only one is under any consideration for
>>breeding. One is a really good dog that he still owns,
>>but she won't be used for breeding, because she is a
>>double merle. The other has been spayed and given
>>away. I have been curious about the Clark-bred dogs
>>for a long time, because I have seen several that were
>>the real deal as coon dogs.
>>Sparkieg...You may have more questions. I will try to
>>answer if you do. I would be happy to talk with you on
>>the phone, as well as answering here. We have a unique
>>and wonderful breed of dogs that can sell themselves.
>>I would like to be a part of promoting the image. Our
>>member numbers are dwindling, but that is not the
>>Leopards' fault.
>>Randy
>
>I will add a few comments, just because I have some
>experience with the clark bred dogs. I am not a bear
>hunter, but have been around bear dogs and bear
>hunters my entire dog hunting years. I will be very
>surprised if the clark dogs make bear dogs from what I
>have seen. They were not bred to be bear dogs, and as
>far as I know, have not one bear bred dog in their
>ancestry.
>
>The remarkable miracle to me is that they were not
>bred to be bobcat dogs either, but three that I know
>of have been hunted on bobcat and shown themselves
>able to catch bobcats on a pretty regular basis. The
>two that I came to know very well lack a couple things
>for being a complete and well balanced bobcat dog
>though. I am listing them here, not to slam the dogs
>because they are two of my favorite dogs, but by way
>of passing on knowledge that took a lot of money and
>time and energy to aquire.
>
>1)They are not tough enough. This is an attitude.
>Imagine two kids (a and b) on the football team.
>A)One breaks his thumb and doesnt tell the coach so he
>can still play. Then he suffers and concusion, cant
>remember the plays, but he wont tell anyone because he
>wants to still play.
>The other one B) breaks his thumb and immediately
>asks to be taken out of the game.
>
>My Clark dogs were kinda like the second kid. It is
>not unreasonable at all that the kid be taken out of
>the game. In fact it is the logical, intellegent
>thing to do. Yet I have always needed the first boy
>in my dog pack as far as attitude and desire. The
>Clark dogs are almost too intellegent and having
>human-like qualities to intentionally punish their
>body in these ways.
>
>One of the two had enough experience to get to the
>point where she could just about catch a bobcat
>whenever she wanted it. This is the only dog of this
>caliber I have been close to in my almost 30 years of
>dogging. YEt, she got to the point where, if she did
>not feel on top of her game that day, she would tag
>along. She got tired of facing those big bobcats all
>by herself. This, on top of the fact that when she
>did bay a bobcat, she stood back so far that their was
>no way in God's green earth that this bobcat could
>make contact with her. She would stay behind the cat
>as well. Smart dog? Extremely smart dog. The
>smartest tree dog I have ever worked with. Her style
>of baying far back and behind worked perfect with
>another dog that would get up close and bay in the
>face, as the cat felt like his back door was blocked,
>and he would hold perfectly in one spot (unlike the
>'moving bay' where the cat keeps slipping out the back
>door.)
>
>One of these two dogs had a coat so thin that I would
>have to pull her out of the box if temps got below 0
>degrees. Yet I have had thin coated dogs that would
>not hesitate to come out of the box to go hunting on a
>sub zero day. Not very smart of these other dogs
>really, as body parts can freeze.
>The Clark dogs are more human than that. Would you go
>out hunting in that weather with no clothes on? I
>doubt it.
>
>These dogs might not even be typical for the Clark
>dogs. I have not seen enough to know. But if they
>are, these are some of the reasons I dont beleive they
>could possibly make great bear dogs. They are not
>tough enough to shake off difficult or uncomfortable
>situations, and they are not going to intentionally
>put themselves where they are going to get hurt.
>
>To me it is a mystery why dogs bred for coon would
>have some of the track moving ability that I
>witnessed. They have an uncanny ability to get
>themselves to where the game is, and wrap up the deal
>in less time than another dog might take. I have seen
>them leave the track completely when they think they
>can get to the animal quicker by doing that. I have
>seen them locate and begin treeing from a distance and
>come into the tree treeing while other dogs are
>milling. I have seen them locate and tree without
>ever putting their nose to the ground or to the tree
>trunk. I have seen a couple things that to me were so
>remarkable that I have no way of explaining the way
>they came up with the game, and I watched it happen.
>
>I have owned 5 Leopards and 3 "camus curs" who had a
>famous Leopard for a father or granfather. Of those 8
> dogs, Three of them were direct daughters of Wicks
>Camo Jug. Of those 8 dogs only 3 were not culled.
>These three have gone on to become better than average
>dogs. Remember, I am not a leopard cur man, I am just
>a hunter. Those three dogs not culled were the Clark
>bred dogs.
>
>I have watched two direct descentants of Jug be
>culled. Both were male. They were not mine, and the
>decision was not mine.
>
>I am going to share an opinion here as an outsider. I
>am sticking my neck out, because I dont have to try
>and be politically correct. The preasure is off me,
>as I have no dogs now, and can not hunt. I dont want
>to hurt anyones feelings, yet will speak my opinion
>here according to my own limited experience, and
>limited intellegence. I have not had the opportunity
>to experience every strain of Leopard. Yet I cant
>immagine that there are too many that exceed the
>intellegence and the natural giftedness of the two Jug
>daughters that I am most familiar with. I have never
>owned dogs that were more gifted. (I have owned dogs
>with more desire, and sometimes, desire can make up
>for lack of giftedness.)
>
>If people dont want the Clark bred dogs included in
>the Leopard Cur world, then kick them out. Get on
>with it. Dont even blink an eye. There is no
>registry in the world that can tell me what those dogs
>are. I have seen what they are in the woods.
>Those dogs can stand on their own ability and do not
>need the support of this registry. Do not feel guilty
>about removing them from the registry if that is what
>folks want. People with Clark dogs: let it go.
>
>John Clark never registered them with ALCBA. I doubt
>if he would now. In my opinion, being kicked out of
>the ALCBA might very well be the best possible thing
>that could happen to those dogs. That might motivate
>someone to start a registry for the Clark dogs, call
>them "Leopard Hounds" get them included in the UKC,
>compete with other hounds, and let the whole world see
>what these dogs can do. They need a bigger forum than
>15 dogs at the world hunt, and they deserve to be seen
>by more people than the closed, bitter, back biting,
>and dying secret society of the Leopard Cur world will
>allow. They are not perfect. Not even close. But
>they are good dogs.
>
>And to the Leopard folks. IF you think maybe a strong
>outcross might not hurt the ALCBA dogs any, Look no
>further. If your goal is dogs with trim though, might
>have to stay away from these dogs. Sincerly,
>David P


Honest, first person account, till you injected this, "closed, bitter, back biting, and dying secret society of the Leopard Cur world ".

Who peed in your lemonade?????

Jerry

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