| Subject: Re: Lake Ontario Salmon |
Author:
King Davy
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Date Posted: 04:43:23 02/13/02 Wed
In reply to:
Undertaker
's message, "Lake Ontario Salmon" on 11:16:09 02/12/02 Tue
>Well, King Davy I don't know if you'll get to read
>this since my last post to you didn't get on here. I
>would like to respond to the fact that OH,
>PA,WI,IN,IL,MI and MN have changed there spending more
>towards the steelhead fishery because that is what the
>fishermen want, not what a handful of shop owners and
>guides want. We have had the pacific salmon program
>for many years now and quite frankly, I don't see why
>we should keep it. For the last two years the major
>run of salmon have stayed at the mouth of the river
>and very few salmon have gone up the river. If you
>folks want to pen raise them and have them hang out in
>the mouths of the rivers that,s fine with me, just
>make sure that the program isn't heavily leaning
>towards the pacifics. Stock equal numbers of
>steelhead. Just once I would like to see the fishery
>focus as much attention on the steelhead program as it
>has on the salmon program. How about letting us spend
>the next several years growing the steelhead fishery.
>My guess is no way because if the steelhead program
>got bigger than the salmon program everyone would
>wonder why we stocked pacifics in the first place.
>This whole pacific salmon program was just a pet
>project dreamed up by a few state fishery people. If
>you fish the area then you must see that changes need
>to be made. How can you say that the fishery is great
>the way it is and that you wouldn't change the type of
>fish we raise. You better read up on what is happening
>to the west of us because I don't want to be sitting
>here 5 years from now saying if we had only... If what
>we have now is what everyone wants to keep in place
>then we will all be losers in the end. Our fishery is
>a joke worldwide and everyone knows it. Other states
>are saying lets not end up with a Pulaski situation.
>We made all the mistakes for the whole world to learn
>from, so why not let us fix it. Why have a heavy
>number of fish and people for 4-5 weeks when the
>salmon run when we could have steady fishing 8-10
>months a year. I'm sure the shops and guides would
>rather have steady income year round instead of
>crammed into 4weeks a season. Many bank on that 4 week
>period and then when it didn't happen two years in a
>row has got to hurt. So, how about it, lets try it my
>way for a while and see what happens. It can't get any
>worse since the fishery is in the dumps already. The
>DEC doesn't have it down to a science either, they
>just keep trying different things every year and we
>have seen what it has produced. It is time we all
>stopped walking on eggshells about this subject and
>get down to the job of correcting this fishery.
Undertaker...my friend...we do agree on many issues here. I agree the salmon river and pulaski during the salmon run is a joke...but that's because the people who are fishing it ARE A JOKE. The sad thing there is no easy fix for people who intend to come to our rivers and gig fish. We can pass all the laws we want...but unless we make stiffer fines...that stick...we aren't going to change it. I fish the salmon river more in the summer months for skamania...and Atlantics...then I do in the winter. And PA and Ohio are NOT year round steelhead stream fisheries ...where the salmon river actually is.
The state did in 1992 upgrade the steelhead program and down grade the salmon program due to forage base problems. In the 80's and early 90's 30% of the steelhead stocked in lake Ontario returned to the salmon river. The salmon actually gets MORE steelhead stocked now then back then...and less then 5% are returning. We have a problem with the steelhead in the salmon river...that nobody has figured out yet. Right now between the 750K chambers creek fish...and the 300K domestic fish NY state stocks over a million steelies a year...into Lake Ontario.
Pen rearing has a mix of kings and steelies...but it's the LAKE FISHERMEN who are doing the stocking. The Stream fishermen...are doing A LOT OF TALKING...but no action. I fish steelhead all year round....and if we didn't put a single king in lake ontario ever again...we still won't get steelhead in the salmon river till Nov. through May. So you'll be sitting around waiting through Sept. and most of Oct. to get fish.
Here's another thing to think about. I know in the genny...we get banner steelhead fishing when we have a banner king run. Remember...our steelhead are "WINTER" run fish...that's just the way it is for this strain. You may not see any steelhead without kings till even later then Nov. They absolutely follow the kings in to feed heavily on eggs.
You can't compare our program to PA's and Ohio. They have some very nice spring fed streams that cool down a little faster then the salmon river and other surrounding rivers. The fish aren't coming in when the water is in the 70's. The salmon river stays warm for much longer then Elk and Walnut in the fall.
You and Ken keep missing the point that this fishery is not JUST for stream fihermen. Go ahead and try to lobby for the shutting down of the king salmon program...you have that right...but I'll bet you a trip to Alaska...you won't get to first base with your plan. The lake has a powerful lobby...has been in place long before the stream fishing ever got popular. Back in the 80's when I was fishing the salmon river you wouldn't count 10 guys on the water in late Nov. Yet there were over 750K boat trips a year on the lake to fish for trout and salmon. That has receeded quite a bit I'll admit as people try different things, but there is still 250K trips a year...with a lot of time and money involved.
Finally...I have to go back to my soap box....you are placing the blame on a fish...how can you miss the fact that as in hunting....the fishermen have caused the problem with how they treat this fishery. I totally agree you go to Erie...no more jerks ripping fish...for the most part. Same up in the Huron and Ontario streams across the lake. I was in the House of Hardy in London not to long ago...and they just MOCKED the hell out of the salmon river. But not because of the salmon...but because of the jerks that snag fish AT the salmon.
The English revere all salmon....they love to go to Alaska and the NW and fly fish for them....and they would love to come to the Salmon river and fish for them...but they won't put up with the snaggers...so they don't come and spend all that big money.
Until the fishing community "laymen" like you and I and Ken start dealing with the poachers of this fishery and put peer pressure on them to either learn to fish...or leave the sport...we won't have any changes. There are laymen and guides linning steelhead all winter long. Just because there isn't a shoulder to shoulder crowd on the river in Feb...I can tell you that there are plenty of non sportsman like activities going on. If you guys fish Erie...let me ask you one thing. How many long liners you ever see fish those places???????? NOt a one...at least I've never seen it. Not there...not in Huron...not in Ontario...hey not at the Oak..or the Genny...or the other good streams in the western basin. We have a poor class of guys fishing the salmon river raping ALL the fish...especially the steelies.
You guys can do what you want...but if I were you....you might want to think about what we at LOSA are trying to do. TEACH people to come over from the dark side. Teach them how to fish. The fish are not the problem...the so called anglers who use methods that mame or kill these fish are the problem.
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