Subject: Here's the kind of evidence we're looking for, Steve. |
Author:
One-eyed Jack
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Date Posted: 13:53:00 07/31/04 Sat
In reply to:
Steve
's message, "Re: proof of NO God" on 22:34:46 07/10/04 Sat
God is by definition supernatural. Therefore evidence that God exists must demonstrate supernatural causation.
Follow me so far? Here's another way to put it: physics, chemistry, biology all describe the workings of the natural universe. Evidence that something outside nature exists--something supernatural--must be separate from our scientific understanding of the universe. It must be unexplained by natural law...it must be miraculous.
A miracle is by definition a contravention of natural law. Therefore a genuine, undeniable miracle is evidence for the existence of a supernatural something that is not bound by the laws of physics (chemistry, biology, etc).
Now, one might say that God speaks inside the heads of men and thatis evidence. But that mental phenomenon is not evidence that God exists in the real universe, the consensual reality shared by everyone. What is inside the mind is not necessarily evidence for what exists outside the mind; the "voice of God in my head" does not indicate that God really exists in the universe. It's just a process happening in my mind.
Undeniable and clearcut miracles are really the only evidence supporting the existence of God.
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I tried to avoid using the word "proof", Steve, because it's easy to argue that nothing whatsoever can be definitively proven. (In science of course this is recognized in the axiom that a theory can never be definitively proven true; it can only be proven false.)
For example, Prove to me that on Earth all dropped stones fall to a position of rest. (For goodness' sake, ignore stones dropped by astronauts in orbit. Don't mess about, take the simplest case!) To definitively prove that this is true for ALL stones you would have to test all cases: you would have to drop every stone on Earth to prove that not one of them, by a fluke of nature, hovers in midair when dropped. And the job would never be done: the next bit of rock chipped from a cliff may be the one which does not fall when dropped. The case can never be closed.
(Well, what about natural law? Doesn't the law of gravitation assure us that every stone dropped in Earth's gravitational field will always fall to a position of rest? No, it doesn't, actually. It predicts that this will always be the case, but to raise that prediction to the status of absolute proof you have to go ahead and test all possible cases. Ugh.)
So it is with "proof" of God: an honest man must admit that the next bit of evidence he examines may be the one which convinces him God does not in fact exist. Or the next bit of evidence I examine may be the one which convinces me, after 50 years, that God does exist! Either way, the case can never be closed as long as there is one item of evidence anywhere in the universe which remains unexamined.
All an honest man can say is, "Based on the evidence I have, I believe that there is no God" or "Based on the evidence to hand, I believe that there is a God".
Which is not to say that the evidence can't be very very convincing, or that we should avoid trying to understand what the universe is really like! That's really all we have going for us, as human beings: we are the ones who are driven to understand. And to find a moral and ethical stance, and thereby find how to live lives which are morally and ethically good, we have to understand something about the universe and our relationship to it and to other entities in the universe. Without that drive to understand, a man is not much of a human being.
I am convinced, by scriptural evidence and by simple logic, that the God described in the Bible would be a horribly inhuman, evil being. Fortunately, I see no evidence for the existence of this God--I've no evidence that undeniable miracles have occurred. Therefore I am convinced that the natural universe, roughly described by the laws of physics, is the only consensual reality which exists. There is no "higher" (or "lower") supernatural or spiritual reality.
*shrugs* But ain't nobody proved nothin' to this ole boy. All's I got is the evidence and my own best understanding of it.
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