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Date Posted: 11:38:55 07/19/07 Thu
Author: Randy (Texas Reb)
Author Host/IP: cpe-66-25-204-230.sw.res.rr.com / 66.25.204.230
Subject: Re: Texas is not part of teh south!!!
In reply to: Travieso 's message, "Re: Texas is not part of teh south!!!" on 08:38:54 07/18/07 Wed

Travis,

Not trying to overwhelm with comments, responses, and replies, but wanted to post this one as well ... since last night I was pretty tired and didn't quite feel up to locating all my researched sources to post.

Anyway, to these in particular, I wanted to note:

>3. you wrote "The dominating traditional food stuff in
>Texas is Southern in origin". YOu also wrote that my
>cuisine didn't sound "texan". Wow! I don't know where
>you grew up. My whole family is Texan. My mother made
>homemade tortilla. "Tex-Mex" is a true cuisine that
>has it's own history. So, you really cannot say that
>my cuisine is not Texan. It is very Texan. I agree
>that East Texas is more Southern in cuisine, but for
>the majority of the State, that cuisine loses
>popularity. IN South TExas, central Texas, and West
>Texas tex-mex in much more popular. In Austin, the
>only major restaurant that serves Southern style
>cuisine (apart from strictly BBQ) is Threadgills.
>Taquerias and Tex-Mex restaurants are much more
>numerous.

I truly do not mean to insult you and/or your own experience, food wise (or otherwise for that matter). However, I stand by my own earlier statements about traditional Texas food and its origins. Including chili! Austin, or many of the DFW area chain eating places, are NOT true Texas. They are nationwide and "trendy" places that exist all over the South today. Not just Texas.

Go into a REAL cafe or local restaurant, and if you can verify that chicken-fried steak, fried chicken, catfish and REAL BBQ are not on the menu in the majority of places? Then I promise to push a goober pea down to down where you live and buy you a meal of your choice! LOL

And surely even you don't deny that black-eyed peas are not traditional on New Years Day! Hell's bells...they are refered to around these parts as "Texas Caviar" LOL

>- Union sympathy was high in many parts of Texas. As
>the Texas handbook indicates : Unionism remained
>strong in some sections of the state. This was
>especially true in some of the German counties in the
>Hill Country and in a group of counties north of
>Dallas". Likewise, this doesn't even take into account
>the role of anti-confederate feelings by Tejanos who
>dominated South Texas.

>In fact, many San Antonians actually
>fought with the Union!!!! Likewise, Central Texas saw
>huge sympathy for the Union.
>
>- I also disagree with your claim that most in
>Missouri fought for the Union. Missouri was about
>equally split, especially with North-South Split. My
>argument is that if you want a good tour of Civil War
>america, don't come to Texas. Go to Missouri.

Let me take things on the "Civil War" issue one at a time. First of all, there is no question of where the overwhelming majority of Texans' loyalties were. You mentioned Wikipedia in an earlier post. If you like, please check out this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_in_the_American_Civil_War

I pretty much wrote the "Secession Convention and the Confederacy" section, and contributed a a good part (mostly about Sam Houston) as to the "Unionist" section. I have researched and stand by all the facts within.

Speaking of Unionist again? As I stated earlier, one of the biggest sources of confusion of "Civil War" history is to associate "Unionist" as synonymous with "northern sympathizer" (this was brought out in my writing on the topic). With VERY few exceptions, "Unionists" in the South were solidly "Southern/States" rights". They just warned of secession being a wrong move, and possibly lead to a conflict sure to favor the North in the long run.

"Unionist" sentiment, as defined in the South in opposition to secession, existed in MANY parts of it. If one goes by elected delegates voting on the question, only (among the Lower South states...as the Upper South rejected it until the War actually started) in South Carolina was the vote of a higher percentage. As a point of comparisson, in Texas it was 166-7. In Mississippi it was 84-15, in Alabama it was 61-39 annd in Georgia it was 208-89.

BUT...when all was said and done? The majority of those, Texas and elsewhere in the Lower South, who initially opposed secession for whatever reason, accepted the verdict and supported the Confederacy. There was not much division in the 7 states of the "Cotton South" as to which color uniform they wore

To back up that point? I posted a URL yesterday evening on the existing records, by state, of how many fought for what side. I went today and found another which broke it down into simple mathematics. Here they are (since Missouri has been an issue, you might want to note it in particular):

***********
Percent of records indicating Union Service as to compared to Confederate in the Southern/Border states

Alabama - 1.4 Arkansas - 10.1 Florida - 6.2 Georgia -.001 Kentucky - 63% Louisiana - 1.1 Maryland - 89% Mississippi - .005 MISSOURI - 64% North Carolina - 2.7 Oklahoma (Indian Territory) -- no records available, although a noteable majority of the "Five Civilized Tribes" allied with the Confederacy. South Carolina - .006 Tennessee -- 27% TEXAS- 2.7 Virginia (includes later day West Virginia) -- 17%
***************

In my own honest opinion, I think those figures pretty well indicate how divided or not a state was on the issue when it came down to brass tacks.

Ok. Posted enough and gotta run. I enjoy the exchange, AND, to make it clear, agree that we keep it civil and not take it personal.

Best Texas and Southern Regards,
Randy

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