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Monday, April 20, 1:52:57

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• I can't remember it exactly, but one of the "sodomite conspirators" had offed himself to avoid the spectacle of a trial. It was more honorable than putting the family through it all and his involvement could still be in doubt. Hal was acting upon precedent. Diana rarely takes the easy way out. (NT) -- kgp, 05:50:49 10/23/07 Tue
  

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• Great work with your theme! The struggle over what to do about Percy causes so much anguish for Grey. I find myself wishing he hadn't had to learn this lesson in such a hard and bitter way - - I think he was infatuated with Percy, and relished the chance to let down his guard, but deep down he knew early on that Percy did not share his sense of duty, and in the end, he was hurt more because he had shared so much of himself. It's the "blade" of intimacy that cuts both ways, again. And apologies for "cutting in" and using the "you dare to speak of honor" quote last week; I can see that it would have worked well here, but I think the one you have given us is perfect too! In this book I felt that Grey became a fully-fleshed romantic hero, honorable of character, strong of body, steely of will - - but not perfect. I am still hung up on why he has to suffer so many lost relationships with people who either die or betray him, and is stuck pining for something that makes no sense. (NT) -- pamelalass, 07:52:50 10/23/07 Tue
  • Oh, Pamela, "the blade of intimacy", so well put. I am thinking ahead, when reading this, to DOA, when John tells Claire he visisted Jaime to see if he could still feel. Episodes such as this really make me wonder if John will ever find his happiness. His understanding of his duty, to his family and his men- will it always have to supercede his happiness? He will never be able to claim a lover freely, and for the sake of honour, he could not forsake his duty or family for himself alone. Does that make any sense? (NT) -- Oleander, 08:18:58 10/23/07 Tue
    • I wonder if John will return to England in the next Book. If he stays and becomes an American will he be more or less under the microscope? John as romantic hero is something I've been thinking about. He certainly is to my mind but in the usual pattern of the genre he and Percy didn't go through the usual sort of courtship or even the passionate-abduction or forced-marriage/love-ya-later format. Maybe in later years he'll settle into house-keeping with a "secretary". I find it interesting that Tom Byrd doesn't remark about Mr Percy being about so much. (NT) -- kgp, 08:45:51 10/23/07 Tue
      • Why would Percy's presence be remarkable? He's a member of the family, as well as Lord John's friend. (NT) -- MsNaugha, 11:19:56 10/23/07 Tue
        • I find it interesting that Tom hasn't caught on myself. Not because Percy is around so much, but rather because the details of Tom's job entail a certain amount of intimacy with John. (NT) -- Oleander, 12:09:52 10/23/07 Tue
          • What makes you think Tom doesn't know? A few years ago the "public" had no idea that Rock Hudson, Raymond Burr, George Nader (to name a few) were gay, but I bet their closest and well-trusted friends and employees knew. (NT) -- MelvaT, 12:34:15 10/23/07 Tue
            • Well, I guess I was thinking about the common beliefs surrounding "sodomy" and the like, and the circumstances under which Tom and John were aquainted (wasn't Tom's brohter accused of Sodomy or something?) Could Tom know? Sure, I think so. But I do think it is a whole different kettle of fish than gentlemen and their closest friends in this century knowing. (NT) -- Oleander, 14:58:58 10/23/07 Tue
              • Exactly, a whole different trout. But either way, Tom seems to me to be not only intelligent, but a compassionate man. He respects LJG and he respects his own position. Outing John would gain nothing for him personally other than the loss of a very good job. (NT) -- MelvaT, 15:26:13 10/23/07 Tue
          • There's a bit in Private Matter, where Lord John reflects that "he shuddered to think what Tom Byrd knew of his own intimacies." No matter what Tom knew, though, he almost certainly wouldn't say anything. It's a big deal, trespassing on custom and manners, when he says in BOTB "I'm that sorry, me lord," about John's father's having (presumably) committed suicide while insane. (NT) -- maddiej, 13:48:37 10/23/07 Tue
            • I think he was referring more to his personal habits at home, dunking his biscuits in his tea or how snug he had his small clothes tailored, that sort of thing. Tom had no idea Jack was homosexual. (NT) -- kgp, 15:03:08 10/23/07 Tue
              • I'm not sure Tom realized there was such a thing, until the man on the bridge grabbed him by the balls and put his [ahem] into Tom's hand. He'd probably heard of sodomites, I mean, but he wasn't looking for Jack; he was just following Lord John, and only after realizing what kind of neighborhood they were in, and knowing what kind of investigation Lord John was engaged in, did he think to ask whether Lord John was looking for Jack there. (NT) -- maddiej, 16:56:16 10/23/07 Tue
                • Tom had me in stitches! the way he followed John to Lavendar House to be sure the inhabitants knew that someone knew where john was and if anything happened they would answer for it! (NT) -- kgp, 18:40:20 10/23/07 Tue
  
  

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• LJG not only has to face this dilemma of honor, but to pretend to condemn a friend and relative of a crime he is guilty of himself. And what of this moment in itself? Can you imagine the anxiety LJG must be going through? The fear that one day, if he himself is found out, that Hal may have to ask him to uphold the family honor and commit suicide. At this point, whichever way he turns, he's going to come out looking like a hypocrite in his own eyes. Be a damned hard thing for a man like LJG to live with for the rest of his life. (NT) -- MelvaT, 13:07:30 10/23/07 Tue
  • That's why he goes to Jamie, I think. He says, "Because, God damn it, you are the only person in this world to whom I can speak frankly." In other words, the only one to whom he can lay out his problem, but also the only one who might be able to help him, as one who understands honor the same way he does. And in spite of the catastrophic way that conversation ends, he does find his way clear as a result of it. (NT) -- maddiej, 14:50:42 10/23/07 Tue
    • Yes, LJG knows that Jamie believes in honor the same as himself, but also that Jamie hasn't and isn't going to tell anyone about his sexual preference. John's attraction to other men may disgust Jamie, but he obviously doesn't think John should be disgraced and killed because of it. (NT) -- MelvaT, 15:16:20 10/23/07 Tue
      • I don't know whether he thinks John should be disgraced and killed or not. The fact is, he's in no position to tell anyone about Lord John, except Lord Dunsany and the other servants. Dunsany certainly wouldn't listen to that kind of calumny, and what point would there be in telling the servants? I think John feels himself safe because Jamie simply *can't* reveal his secret, though he may also feel that he wouldn't. (NT) -- maddiej, 16:59:23 10/23/07 Tue