Thanks for bringing that up, JayBee (r) -- The Beta Board

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Date Posted: 10:00:38 05/06/03 Tue
Author: Nell
Subject: Thanks for bringing that up, JayBee (r)
In reply to: JayBee 's message, "Apologies for interrupting the beta, but (r)" on 09:42:37 05/06/03 Tue

I'd been wondering about the same thing; if O-bug meant 'passive voice' - for as you pointed out, Shanola's construction of this sentence was in 'active voice,' 'voice' being the relationship of the subject to the verb - or if O-Bug was making a more personal comment about taste with regards to prefered verb tenses.

Both sentences are nice. Like Jaybee, I think I would lean towards the vividness of Shanola's, but the spare, lean, flat quality of O-Bug's shorter, tighter version is very true to the mood of LFN. Which is to be preferred in this case all depends on the overall style of the piece, I think.

Nell

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[> [> [> [> [> What caught my attention ... -- O-Bug, 12:45:38 05/06/03 Tue

... about the opening sentence was the act of water pouring down from a nameless source. That's what really bothered me now that I've looked at it again. I like to see things as they happen when I'm reading, and I'd prefer that the story characters reveal the action, not the writer. I want to forget that I'm reading when I'm reading.

However, when I saw the two ing words, that's what I focused on. I was taught to avoid words ending in ing and ly as much as possible because words ending with these suffixes tend to come across as passive. And yes, that is my opinion. *g*

But, do you know what? I've been hesitant to offer more feedback in the event my comments are keeping others from stepping up to the plate. I don't want my opinions to be the only ones aired.

And like I said in my first feedback bit to Shanola, I think she came up with a great idea. But I also feel like a heel because my feedback indicates that there's a lot more work to be invested, when it appears others may not feel that way.

What else are we to make of the silence? Are people really this afraid to offer critique? And do I look bad because I'm offering it?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Not everyone (r) -- Athena4, 15:47:25 05/06/03 Tue

Is experienced at Beta-ing, nor is everyone interested in it beyond it being a learning experience to see what beta-readers do. Beta reading is a challenge, and a trial, it's not everyone's cup of tea.. just like writing isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Personally, I haven't found the time to tackle the other two sections, but I do plan to get back to it.

Plus, a lot of people don't read with a "critical" eye. Sometimes its hard to look beyond the excitment of the story and see the potential problems. A lot of people read just for pleasure, and nothing else. So asking them to beta read is asking them to use a part of their mind that they may prefer not to when reading.

There might also be some fear involved. Shanola is an established writer, who has been writing in LFN for several years (although she's been quiet recently). People might fear they'll insult her, or that their comments will be laughed at because they're not "up to standard".

This might be a good example of the "niceness" of LFN fandom. A lot of people might not be willing to "hurt her feelings.

You're not a "heel", nor do you "look bad" for participating. Shanola asked for honest feedback, well aware that some of it might sting. This was her first story, it wasn't perfect - I'm positive that most of us can say that about our first stories.

Don't feel bad about it.

You're participating - this is what Shanola wanted. You've also started some "critical" feedback of your own in people's responses to your betas. It shows a great deal about the subjectivity of beta-reading. Of particular styles etc.

Looking back at my beta, and at yours.. we grasped onto different things. That's just the way is. That's why sometimes, more than one beta is helpful as well. Some people are simply more focused on grammar, others on plot, others on tone.

It's a learning experience. For all of us.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Um...what Athena said.*g* -- Shanola, 17:46:24 05/06/03 Tue

I agree with what Athena said.

The second part of this, naturally, is the rewriting stage. I still debate on that, but I'm leaning toward rewriting. I'd like to have the entire beta process up there. Some of the changes that have been suggested, I'll take, and some I won't. But all of them have made me think and look critically at the story. That's what a beta is about.*g*

But I don't want to start rewriting until the beta is complete. So please continue. =D

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[> [> [> [> [> [> I'm enjoying the betas, even though I'm not doing one myself... -- JayBee, 18:58:06 05/06/03 Tue

I think Athena explained better than I could why more people aren't offering feedback here. I would only add one more reason (which is the primary one that applies to me): the betas that others (you, ~delle, Athena) have done have, in combination, pretty much covered any topics I would have raised. It's been a lot of fun reading them, and I hope that my (and others') silence hasn't been interpreted as lack of interest.

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