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Date Posted: 03:32:57 10/22/06 Sun
Author: Anwar Ibrahim: Shifting guns to remain afloat? (Your Source of IndependentNews)
Subject: THE CORRIDORS OF POWER
In reply to: THE CORRIDORS OF POWER 's message, "Anwar Ibrahim: Shifting guns to remain afloat?" on 03:27:28 10/22/06 Sun

Bruders1 wrote:
To all belief Zombies,

There will always be those who join and those who leave. So stop all these cheap talks and start showing the goodness of your belief through the way you are living now. Don't be a hypocrite and a pretender.
21/10 11:45:00
casper c wrote:
Anwar's speech no doubt resonates well to the Western audience but does the tune he sings sufficient to placate Muslim masses back home ? He says little or steers clear on sensitive issues, so the enigma remains.

Before jumping the gun, there's at present no platform for Anwar in domestic politics. And while the clock ticks, at best he plays a role of kingmaker behind the scene.

Posters' comment about Yanks 'bela' Anwar is spot on. Reasons being there might be a wave that sweeps him back into M'sian politics and even if that doesn't happen, there's utility in his person.

That said, US and Western powers are more concerned with the latter. Reason being - our world is just one gun shot away from a nuclear war in the form of Pakistan. Twice already, Islamist have tried to assasinate Pervez Musharraf. Blow him up they did but the armoury of his Merc held up both times. If the mad mullahs have their way, no doubt they won't hesitate to go nuclear. The end is not that far off is it ?

Anwar fits hand in glove as peacemaker in any eventuality. The shift from his ABIM persona to one acceptable (secular) to the West, is no less the invisible hand hedging its bet.

As much as many clamour for a return of Anwar, it might never happen.

However, hypothetically, if radical/militant Islam gains foothold in Muslim domains, I have no doubt Anwar would have a role to play. And who knows, his capacity as peacemaker might just propel him for a Nobel ! (Such a channel has been engineered and remains on the drawing board. It is inevitable a Muslim wins the *Noble Peace honour near future) Now imagine one of ours on that platform !!!

* Mahathir had his shot of taking a stance to voice out against Islam being hijacked during his hosting of the OIC but sadly he stoke the flame instead. Not long after, he voiced out his inspriration that perhaps some day, M'sia would truly have arrived if any M'sian wins a Nobel, any Nobel. No doubt, Dr.M had himself in mind.

Happy down time all and mind the blood sugar level.
21/10 11:51:22
alicar wrote:
Wasalam

proarte wrote:
I would like to ask Ali Cordoba, how did violent and murderous reaction against the West in the form of bombing Twin Towers help the Muslim cause?

find the websites or buy Forward magazine at MPH - the magazine is made in Malaysia - and get the CD Reopen 911 which comes with the magazine. You will then understand that it is not necessarily true the Muslims did the 911 job.

Hence, it is senseless to say Muslims are paying for 911. In fact, the Afghan and Iraq attacks were planned during the First G.Bush presidency - the father of that ignorant Bush we have now - and the plan was carried out well and good.

Now the US is planning a solution for Iraq. There is no solution as we know it but they are trying to bluff the people again.

This is what characterises the West. Its bluff and lies and hypocrites leaders. No one in this forum managed to debunk what is written in this article above about the hypocrites that runs the West.

However, it is true that Anwar may not come back and if that is the case, I would suggest that the Muslims find a new leader. Khairy?

Thanks
21/10 12:40:25
alicar wrote:
Salaam

Dear Haiwachee

Thanks for your recent comments.

To say about Islam's future, it is simple. Islam has the ability to survive the worst of catastrophes. It survived the Mongol invasion in Baghdad. It survived the Crusaders in Arabia. It survived uncountable attempts by the non-Muslim world to terminate it, finish with it. It is surviving Iraq and Afghanistan's occupation by the West and it has definitely survived the Palestine take over by Israel and the daily killing of Muslims there.

And I can say without a doubt that it will survive even a destruction of the Kaaba in the Macca (Mecca). If that is what the enemies and opponents of Islam wish to do...Islam will still survive and will still be a pain in the neck of the hypocrite western leaders.

I can also tell you this: Kill all the Muslims but you won't end Islam. Islam is from Allah and it is a universal gift. It won't die just because some or all the non-Muslims who hates Islam want it to die or to change.

When Raja Petra said he would be willing to leave his religion if you were to win any debates on the issue of Islam, he was confident he will win the debate. I am as confident as he is that any one who want to debate with me on Islam will be defeated flat and check mate.

However, what I am not confident in, is like Raja Petra says, the way the non-Muslims twists and turve and turn to evade defeat by living in denial. If you can promise you won't be in denial after we beat you in a debate on Islam, then there will be a debate.

However, rules and conditions must be set before such a debate.

Thanks all.

Wslm
21/10 12:49:13
alicar wrote:
Yenede Bigjoete

What exactly you mean by this contradictory comment of yours?

Bigjoe wrote: He is most contradictory in that he seems to say that Anwar pro-West stance will not lead him far but at the same time his vigorous attacks seem to suggest that Anwar pro-West stance poses a threat to his ideas. End Quote!

All the schools I went did not do me good to understand your crap you wrote there...
21/10 12:51:32
xxxx wrote:
RPK, you wanted to debate with the hawaii guy re Islam and said he's violently close minded.

Donno about him RPK but I can tell you you can debate with anyone in Malaysia who's not a muslim and they'll be as receptive as a Muslim being convinced about the benefits of having a Hindu or Christian kingdom in Tanah Melayu.

FORGET IT! Bottom line, we do not want Islam or any other bloody religion as the basis of political, social, moral, or economic governance.

I can put you in touch with one of the yellow robed Guru in India and you two fellas can debate and debate about religion and LEAVE US ALONE!

We do not want a religious governance even if it meant infinite stay in Heaven with free Astro x-rated channel and perpetually revirginised women.
21/10 14:21:03
goredbushes wrote:
Look at those previous DPMs. What made them failed to the throne. There must be many criteria being set to qualify into one and became the next PM. How tough can that be in order to be ;
a) “selected?”
b) “qualified?” or
c) rather its not that easy being the most favoured by TDM to replace him?

Lets look at the closest guess to the most prominent events thus far, meaning, most favoured by TDM that is, former DPM-DSAI and PM-AAB.

What made them favoured by TDM then? My personal views were, they are Muslims with ‘quality’. They portrayed themselves like a true devout Muslim in a sense but, infact one should/must, meet the vital requirements as a devout Muslim so as to speak, portray, act and think like one. Seriously NOT those pictured by the anti-Islam campaigns world-wide nor the personal misconduct by one, that already has gone against the teachings itself.

Well, the failures of AAB to kowtow to TDM’s formulas could be sensed by all Malaysian, and/or even the world. The challenges, protests, demonstrations, dissatisfactions amongst the majority Malaysians were weaknesses shown by his leadership, so to speak. TDM himself confessed to this over his choice.

And back to DSAI……

Can we NOT really think that his presence in politics and fast promotions to the helm, but not the throne, is a pure fluke? Perhaps DSAI has proven himself as a prominent leader along the way, YES, those pro-reformist were very sure of it, and still, DSAI disqualified to be the next PM.

Knowing to the sensitiveness of our foreign policies towards Israel alone, is good enough to show where Malaysia stands. Let alone the leader/PM. DSAI’s inclination towards the Bush-Blair-Olmert democracy doesn’t seem to materialized in many years to come, may I cast my vote now.

He will/has lost his fight altogether, let alone the battle or the war. His most loyalist supporters from ABIM will be the first to shy away from this very approach. His UMNO supporters? Being opportunists to the core will definitely not be giving him a space to even breath. His reformist supporters thus far still hangs around but mostly a frustrated lots or splinters from the BN coalition parties.

From where else could he gain a majority support?

a) through PKR, I doubt it will ever happened. Even the strongest opposition from Semangat 46, failed.
b) another try for the PKR-DAP-PAS teaming? Also a failure by not winning his premiership/PM.
c) Rigging or buying the votes again? Not a chance. Unless he is back into UMNO again by hook or by crook, maybe.
d) Open support from Bush-Blair-Olmert and bribe all eligible Malaysian voters to a USD1mil pocket money each, MOST probably, why? Name one political voter whom doesn’t deserve that USD1 mil offers? Even a RM200 each to cast TDM out is delicious.
21/10 14:30:54
xxxx wrote:
Anwar was once an open ULTRA. Then he toned down to get job in UMNO. He tond down further after being publicly "screwed" by TDM (the court now says it was wrong accusation). So an ULTRA has toned down but way back in late 80's there was a gathering of the UMNO samsengs where DSAI was involved in a speech about connecting a keris, blood flow and chinese. Can't remember whether it was him who uttered it or the UK educated bajob. But someone did. As a result our dorm doors in the local U where we were studying were plastered with "Anjing CIna", "Darah Cina" "Keris" type statements. I cannot forget it. So however mcuh you tone down dear DSAI, nothing short of a VERY PUBLIC APOLIGY over BBC with tears of repentance would soften my heart.
21/10 14:33:27
rickteo wrote:
foreigner in k.l,
YOU SAY aLI sINA IS A PSYCOPATH,do you know that he recently had a debate with a prominent Pakaistan Ulama? pls go to his site faithfredom.org and see for yourself if what he said is logical.
I ask you only one very simple and basic question. Do you have a six year daughter?Would you allow your six yr old daughter marry a 54 yr old man and allow her to have sex with the old man?If you say yes then you are the psycopath and not Ali sina.
21/10 15:33:15
rickteo wrote:
foreigner in k.l,
The reason I am prepared to bet about my conversion is because I am 100% sure that Ali Sina will not lose. I have seen hisarguments with learned clerics and he has put them all to shame.In fact after the debate a few of the Ulamas left Islam. Dont be prejudice, visit Ali Sina site with an open mind and dicover the truth.
21/10 15:40:27
aliimran911 wrote:
Alicar, peace,

>>The Quraan says no one in Islam can leave Islam. Those 'liberal' u mention that says the quraan says no such thing are either playing God or are simply unsure whether they read the Quraan or the bible? They can try to change the meaning of the Quraan but the Quraan will remain in Arabic and not in Bahasa Melayu or English. And alas for them, and for u who is playing the ignorant (which is a personality flaw indeed) the Quraan in Arabic when translated in Bahasa Melayu and in English or in Russian or even in languages you may never have heard of says clearly that apostasy is condemnable in Islam.>>

I challenge you to quote the verse of the Quran, its Arabic reference, that says that there's no freedom of belief in islam, and that a once believer cannot later leave Islam. Otherwise, I'll call you a liar.

A.
21/10 17:59:57
aliimran911 wrote:
rickteo, peace,

>>why do you challenge a religous novice like Hawaaiichee to a debate on Islam. if you are really confident about your knowledge of Islam I suggest you take on an Islamic apostate, Ali Sina at faithfreedom.org.If you win you get us$50,000 and he will take down his site which is anti Islam.. So will you take his challenge?But if you lose I hope you will do the honourable thing and convert to christianity.I cant wait to see the debate so please accept tha challenge>>

Don't be too hasty brother, lest both of you and your wife will have to convert to 'Islam' for nothing and get your thing potong for good.

Seriously, Ali Sina can only win in faithfreedom as he owned the site. I know him and I had debated with him 4 years ago in mukto-mano egroup and I don't think he won the debate. He later had to ask the egroup owner to moderate me. He might have discovered a new thing or two in the past 4 years but I don't think it can be that earthshaking as Ali Sina's premises are quite shaky. People like muftimurtad can shred him to pieces.

You may want to invite him to Malaysia today, and I'm sure it'll be very exciting.

A.
21/10 18:15:43
aliimran911 wrote:
Rickteo, peace,

>>YOU SAY aLI sINA IS A PSYCOPATH,do you know that he recently had a debate with a prominent Pakaistan Ulama? pls go to his site faithfredom.org and see for yourself if what he said is logical.
I ask you only one very simple and basic question. Do you have a six year daughter?Would you allow your six yr old daughter marry a 54 yr old man and allow her to have sex with the old man?If you say yes then you are the psycopath and not Ali sina. >>

Marrying and screwing a 6 year old girl is not in the Quran, but it's in the hadithic fairy tales that's being upheld as divine by sickminded 'Muslims' like foreigner in kl, anak bumi etc.

A.
21/10 19:32:15
Raja Petra wrote:
Actually, Rickteo, the issue about the 6-year old girl is an issue that has put even Muslims hard-pressed to explain. In that sense you are not wrong in raising it. However, there are Muslims subscribing to other sects who do not accept that Hadith. Their Hadiths put the age much higher. Then again, there are Muslims who reject Hadiths outright. And there are Muslims who do not follow any sect at all because Muhammad never introduced these sects and they are all man-made.

I am not giving an opinion here, just narrating the conficts or differences of opinions amongst Muslims.

Hadiths were compliled 250-600 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad and were based on what the Western world would called hearsay. As an example, it is said that Bukhari compiled 500,000 Hadith out of which only 1% are accepted as authentic. Then again, other imams like Malik have only 0.1% of this and some Hadiths between different imams conflict each other.

This is the basis for some Muslims doubting or rejecting Hadith.

Therefore, the issue of the 6-year old girl would depend on which Muslim you speak to. Malays, however, have been taught to accept all Hadith as authentic and they are told not to doubt or reject any. There are of course a percentage of Malays who defy this and refuse to accept Hadiths unless they make sense. But these Malays are all underground and dare not surface for fear of retaliation by the authorities.

You must understand that there are many sects in Islam and each follow different beliefs, rituals and practices. Malays represent only 15 million or so of the 1 billion Muslims. For example, in some countries they can smoke while fasting, they can enter in contract marriages for a few hours or few days for purposes of sex, they can keep slaves and have sex with their slaves, etc. The examples are numerous. But Malays of course do not do all this. Then again, there are some practices that the Malays believe in which others don't.

It is actually very complicating and it is even more difficult when Malays feel that they are the proper Muslims and all others are deviants, though Malays represent only 1.5% of Muslims.

Take war as an another example. The Quran says that God frowns upon wars and killing, and suicide is strictly forbidden. But some Muslims believe that killing and suicide squads are okay.

I trust you now understand that if you, as a non-Muslim, finds Islam complicating, imagine what we Muslims have to endure when we have to practice the religion.

Actually there is an easy solution to all this. Just read what the Quran says. But somehow most Muslims would rather treat the Quran as the last thing rather than the first thing they refer to.

This is the root of the problem. If not, the world would be one heaven of a place to live in.
21/10 20:32:05
Anak Bumi wrote:
Salam,

ingat taknak komen, tapi tiba2 ada nama aku, hehe...

aliimran911,

u called me sickminded muslim eh? Wallahi, in the name of Him that hold my soul in this life and hereafter, when I pray 5 times a day, never in my mind I regard it as a kind of 'worship' to a stone in Mecca. Why? Because I never been to Mecca! I can elaborate further about that but not in this blog because that is the matter of 'Pure Sincerity', my Spiritually Belief, etc. U can ask all muslimin and muslimat that pray in the masjid, surau at kampung2 about their belief, and what will they answer? THEY'RE NO GODS BUT 'GOD'(Allah), AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD IS A MESSENGER OF GOD!

This statement based on their conceptual belief and their way of life, etc. that there are only ONE God.
Simple! And please take note all Ahlil Quran here, Prophet Muhammad SAW just merely a messenger..enough of all bull**ing that accuse muslim on believing that Muhammad is 'adored' like God Himself..

I give an example,

Let say u are a marketing consultant. One day, u planned to present your marketing strategy to one of your client. What is your FIRST intention then? If you intented for unimaginable profits of 'money' that will make you a 'money' worshipper! Isn't that simple when we talk about one's 'intention'? Dont talk about reality, zahir etc. because you can't see it with your eyes! In Islam, there were NO such concept of 'dichotomy'! 'manly' vs 'godly, life vs death, badani vs rohani etc. This 'dichotomy' concept had been introduced by the 'Western civilisation' ie ATHEISM. In Islam there only ONE reality and that is Al-Haqq ie GOD, with 99 names in Al-Quran! I inclining not to elaborate further regarding 'iman', 'tauhid', Sifat 20, etc. because some of you will regard my statement as 'Holier than thou' etc...

aliimran said that Muhammad married with a 6 year old girl, blablabla. WAIT! Before he married that young girl, whom was he married too? Remember that 24 YEARS did he lived in this world and never once he married! And then, when he 25 years old he got married to one woman, but hey! she was 15 YEARS OLDER than him! And plus, they lived together until that woman died 25 years later. Can u please use your God given 'brain' just once before make such accusation?? So, what are you guys try to 'fitnah', condemn is a man who not like you think he is! You just 'resonating' the same accusation from Kafir ie the group who HATE Muhammad!

Actually i know it sound 'unproductive' to give explanation with historical accounts because i firmly belief where this GROUP are coming from.

Salam. and that make me an 'angry' muslim..phew!
21/10 21:22:28
Website - http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/corridors.php?itemid=226

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  • Anwar Ibrahim: Shifting guns to remain afloat? -- Your Source of Independent News (THE CORRIDORS OF POWER), 03:39:45 10/22/06 Sun
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