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Date Posted: 10:38:32 11/23/09 Mon
Author: Linda
Subject: I am not disagreeing with you about the probs in our system
In reply to: muppetmel 's message, "Linda, from below..." on 10:03:43 11/23/09 Mon

And in spite of those problems it is still better than the US system. I am not sure how you can watch Fox and get what you got about them wanting more Americans to have health care, the pundits I have seen are not in support of universal health care, and unfortunately I don't think the Obama plan covers it either. So I have issues with Obama on this and on the war, and I think one can disagree with one's leaders, just like here, even if it is the party you support.

I travel extensively in the US with my work, and people there are not necessarily Obama supporters but they would like universal access to health care. I do think it is a dumb argument to argue against that (not sure how that is shameful and inflammatory, and therefore it is clearly not beneath me!). But I will listen more carefully to Fox pundits now, because maybe I have not been understanding their points of view. Maybe they do want universal health care.

BTW, I also am not a Michael Moore fan, and I also think it is inappropriate to call his films docs. He should be upfront, but he's like anyone else, presenting his viewpoint at the expense of presenting the facts. There's a lot of that in the media. And I still thought Hannity looked foolish, in spite of that.

I am trying to pay close attention to the arguments but I see that this issue is very much landing on party lines with the media, I just don't think it is with the citizens.

I think I can be disappointed in Obama and not have to call him a baby-killer or war criminal. But if he keeps lying to Americans about Afghanistan I may change my mind.

I pay 45% in income tax. That's a lot. But I still agree with public system. I have never met a Canadian who doesn't. That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve the system, and reduce costs where possible.

I think the US, even under Obama, is at risk of collapse. They keep talking about themselves as the Super Power and Leader of the Free World. History shows us that Empires fall.

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[> [> As it relates to Obama, we're on the same page .... -- muppetmel, 10:54:50 11/23/09 Mon [1]

I am not sure how you can watch Fox and get what you got about them wanting more Americans to have health care, the pundits I have seen are not in support of universal health care, and unfortunately I don't think the Obama plan covers it either. So I have issues with Obama on this and on the war, and I think one can disagree with one's leaders, just like here, even if it is the party you support.

The conservative view would be not to pay for a universal health care system funded by tax payer dollars, precisely what we have in Canada, because only a percentage would be footing the bill and the rest would be in for a "free ride." Plus, it is enormously expensive here in Canada, with about 10 times less the population.

The conservative view would be to reform the insurance system to make sure the public gets the coverage they need and signed on for. IMHO, the insurance industry needs to focus less on profit and more on quality care.

The conservative view would be it's every person's responsibility to take care of themselves and move away from an expensive nanny state. Coverage would be for catastrophic illness but not for day-to-day care. They want their insurance plans but they want plans that ensure coverage when they need it and that they get what they are promised.

The conservative view would be less government intervention in their lives because their health care is between them and their physicians, not some government bureaucrat stepping in to manage their care and determine what gets treated and what doesn't. That DOES happen in Canada. Check out what's going on in nursing homes, where we're fighting the government for more than 1 bath a week for residents and more than 1 hour of RN care per resident per day. What does so little care time mean to our nursing home residents? Hours trussed into chairs in dirtied diapers. It happens. It happened to *MY* father right here in Ontario.

The bottom line is, you can't look to the Canadian system to fix what ails the U.S. system at 10 times the population if we can't even afford to sustain it here. And we can't look to the U.S. system to start privatizing all our services so that a bottom line determines what care is available.

Both systems need reform. Neither system's blue print will work for our respective nations.

And Linda, I urge you watch Fox a little more than you do if you really want to understand their perspective. You don't have it right.


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