Helen for Pat -- Spank with Love

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Subject: Helen for Pat

Author:
Helen

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Date Posted: 21:26:55 01/08/13 Tue

Dear Pat,

I hope you will not think me too forward, I know we have not "talked" very much on these forums, but I know from reading the posts of your sons and their friends that you are an excellent father, and I was hoping you would be willing to give me some advise concerning my two boys.

I will not burden you with all the details of our current situation, and I will try to stay on topic. My husband and I separated a few months ago, and I have moved out of our house with the boys and taken a job in another town, Part of the reason for the separation was the reoccurrence of a drinking problem I had thought my husband had put behind him, but mostly it was his treatment of the boys.

My husband lost his job in early October, so he was at home with the boys more than usual. This, combined with the drinking problem, led to him punishing the boys too severely. I had my suspicions, but it was not until I walked in one day from a meeting, and found my husband giving Max, our 11 year old, a spanking with a belt that was more like a beating, that I saw what was really happening,and got the boys away from their father. Both boys admitted to me later that the spankings from their father had been increasing and both frequency and severity, and that they were becoming afraid of him. Since then, my husband has shown no sign of improvement, and refuses to get help, so I made the decision to take a job for the first time since Marcus was born, and move the boys away from their father.

That is the background for the situation we find ourselves in, and now for the issues I would like your advise on. I am a firm believer in spanking children. I believe it is the responsibility of all parents to raise obedient, well behaved children, and if you have to warm up a bare bottom occasionally to accomplish this, that is a regrettable necessity. As long as these spankings are given with restraint and love, I believe the child is all the better for them. The spankings my husband was giving the boys lacked both restraint and love, and that concerns me.

I have found it very difficult to spank either of my boys since the separation, and frankly it is beginning to show in their behavior. I have sweet boys, but they are both getting hard of hearing when Mom tells them to do something, and also both are getting more and more stubborn. The strange thing is, I think they keep expecting a spanking when they misbehave, and when I do not, they get confused.

I suppose my question is this: Should I start spanking like I used to, or would it be better to give it some more time? Should I even spank them anymore? Should I ask them what they think? I think I am so caught up in all this that I am not thinking clearly. All I know is I love those two boys more than my life, and I want what is best for them. Any advise you could give would be very helpful to me.

Thank you,

Helen

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[> Subject: Re: Helen for Pat

Author:
Patterson James, Sr. to Helen
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Date Posted: 11:46:54 01/09/13 Wed

It was good to hear from you. Through the boys, I was made aware of the situation in your family. Sadly, it occurs all too often. Please be assured of our prayers for your family and, especially for your estranged husband.

Yes, I do agree with and use spanking. However, it is not necessarily the only tool in our discipline box. In my case, Caleb has not been spanked in way over a year. Benji still needs and gets spanking. Mark (who is now legally ours through adoption!!) is probably done with spanking. He has really matured. PJ is an enigma. He is 16 and a wonderful boy. He just gets in these rebellious and childish stages and does stuff he knows better than to do. Then he is so very sorry and is totally cooperative with getting spanked for it. But, spanking was NOT working for him. He was too quick to see it as a reset button. On the advice of a friend, I have stopped spanking him. I have found since he has NOT been spanked that his behavior is much better.

OK, if I may be blunt. Marcus' problem is he is 14. I don't think PJ sat comfortably for his entire 14th year. With Caleb, his age was 13. At 13, I think I was spanking Caleb on a weekly basis for a while. Sadly, that was the WRONG response. It is hard to explain. I feel that sometimes we may spank too frequently and it looses its effectiveness. I should have been more in tune with changes in mind and body and developed consequences that addressed behavior but also taught and modeled appropriate expectations while considering physical changes. Hormones wreak havoc with younger teen boys. As parents we have to understand that. It doesn't mean we excuse everything but we must realize that, frankly, they just can't help some things. Sadly, I resorted to spanking as the be all answer. It will take patience. I assume Marcus is getting mouthy with you and maybe even speaks to you in a way you consider disrespectful.
For a couple of times ask him to stop and think about how and what he said to you. Then ask him nicely to please rephrase his words to you. When that doesn't work (noticed I said "when" not "if") ignore him. He will need or want something from you eventually. Just totally ignore him. (Unless of course he is sick or in danger.) "Mom, I'm hungry. What's for dinner?" Ignore him. Don't answer. You know and he knows he will be fed. Essentially stop talking to him. In short order, he will ask you why. You may then explain that since he cannot speak to you appropriately that you decided to not speak to him at all. Then agree to reopen communication with his agreement that he will engage brain before using mouth. Karen also found that having the boys suck on a clean rag with Dawn dish detergent on it for a few minutes worked wonders as well.

Max is a sweet boy. Boys his age are trouble magnets. I am also sure he is taking some cues from Marcus. But, Max is also very smart. He has probably realized that a spanking, while painful, is over and done quickly.

Am I saying don't spank your boys? NO!!

The issue now is that due to your family circumstances, you have cut off most all discipline. So, sure, they are starting to feel they can do as they please.

Sit down, and establish some rules. I even suggest writing them down. This is stuff all three of you agree are the rules. Then establish consequences for breaking those rules. I would say use some non-physical things. I find write-offs or copying from the dictionary works well. Early bed time and privilege loss work well. Be careful of grounding unless you can supervise it - they will sneak around on you. It is easy to lock up a computer or a bike or take the TV cables but you can't lock up the boy. But as you make your list of rules and consequences you will be amazed at their input on punishment. They will be more creative and harder than you think. Please be careful of limiting social interaction, they need that now. Spanking is reserved for blatant deliberate disobedience, safety issues, and theft and lying. Those are inexcusable and are totally in the boys' control. When you spank Marcus please be aware of his development. I might suggest using a paddle or belt on him OVER his underwear. It will hurt the same or more but it will maintain his modesty. Max can probably still take it bare.

I hope my ramblings helped.

Please let me know.

I rarely come here but i will know to check in regularly now. Please stay in touch. I will also be willing to answer specific questions the boys or you may have.

BTW, we finally had a girl! Elizabeth Grace (Beth) was bron November 5.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Helen for Pat

Author:
Helen
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Date Posted: 19:17:45 01/09/13 Wed

Dear Pat,

Thank you so much for your good advise. I think I have been too quick to use spanking to solve every problem with the boys. It has always worked well with both of them, but they are getting older and maybe it is time to change this up a bit.

Thankfully, Marcus has not started the smart mouth phase yet. Both of the boys are very respectful to adults, but they do not always do what those adults tell them to do.

Thank you for your kind words about Max, he is a sweet boy, but he can be a very naughty boy at times too.

I will keep all you advise in mind.

Thany you again, and may God bless your family.

Helen

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[> [> Subject: Re: Helen for Pat

Author:
Alfred (an intro and a comment)
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Date Posted: 22:46:20 01/12/13 Sat

The advice from PJ Sr. was superb and I hope things go well for Helen.

Here are a few sentences about me. I am an adult with one grown child; currently I have two God-children and so on occasion I am asked for parenting advice. I am hoping for grandchildren but they are in the future. This forum and the associated other forums are very helpful, especially for teens trying to become loving and functional young men and women. It would be really neat if someone with PJ Sr.'s wisdom and worldly authority and competence could be a full-time advisor to the parents and kids who come here. Giving honest advice about this rather sensitive topic seems to come very naturally to him. Others contribute valuable insights also. The burden of making any forum work is significant and the moderator deserves gratitude for doing it, sometimes in spite of his own personal health problems. He should see it as a kind of ministry since it really is that. God Bless.

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