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Date Posted: 18:41:09 02/28/03 Fri
Author: UNH_Alum_In_CT
Subject: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region
I'm not trying to get all you Great Danes fans in a lather (I know just mentioning them does that!), but I'd like to know more about the Albany region and Siena. From a distance, I see Siena as a small, private school which probably doesn't have a large percentage of students from Greater Albany. Yet, they play at Pepsi Arena and have impressive attendance figures from what I see posted on the forum. MAAC basketball isn't exactly the Big East or the ACC! I acknowledge that there are good rivalries with other parochial universites in NY and the Northeast, but....
How did they attract such a following? Are the Siena fans "died in the wool" or just basketball fans? I know they had D-1 hoop before the Danes, but you'd think there are more SUNY-Albany alumni in the Capital region. How realistic is it to think that a percentage could be "won over" by the Great Danes?
LSBAL and I have talked about U of H's demographics and how they don't have a large percentage of Greater Hartford kids within their student body and a large percentage of the alumni go outside Greater Hartford for work. This makes the Hawks #3 in town after UConn and Central Conn. State (the ultimate "safety school" -- almost 10% of my HS class went to Central!!!). It is an uphill battle for U of H to fight, especially when you add in the immense popularity of the UConn Women's Basketball Program. Logically, you'd think Siena would have similar struggles in Albany. Your thoughts?
To soothe your nerves after I've riled up all you Danes' fans by even talking about Siena, let me interject a little NAC history as we approach the playoffs. I believe it was 1988 and Siena was the #1 seed for the NAC playoffs with a 24-3 or 23-4 record with probably one league loss. UNH was having a hideous season -- had won two games (each by one point!!), the Coach's job was being threatened, they had to beat UVM in Burlington in the season finale to get the 8th and final seed for the playoffs. In these days, the tournament was held at the Hartford Civic Center for all three rounds. Siena is thinking NCAA tournament while UNH is thinking about saving the coaches job. Despite 25+ and 15+ point losses to Siena during the regular season, UNH managed to upset Siena and throttle their NCAA hopes. Mike Deane was beside himself, to say the least! Because, like you guys, I don't give a rat's backside about Siena, I can't recall if they got to the NIT. I've got to think that it is the all time NAC/AE tournament upset. Does that get me forgiveness for bring up Siena?
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- Hoopfayz, 18:56:10 02/28/03 Fri
>
>I'm not trying to get all you Great Danes fans in a
>lather (I know just mentioning them does that!), but
>I'd like to know more about the Albany region and
>Siena. From a distance, I see Siena as a small,
>private school which probably doesn't have a large
>percentage of students from Greater Albany. Yet, they
>play at Pepsi Arena and have impressive attendance
>figures from what I see posted on the forum. MAAC
>basketball isn't exactly the Big East or the ACC! I
>acknowledge that there are good rivalries with other
>parochial universites in NY and the Northeast, but....
>
>How did they attract such a following? Are the Siena
>fans "died in the wool" or just basketball fans? I
>know they had D-1 hoop before the Danes, but you'd
>think there are more SUNY-Albany alumni in the Capital
>region. How realistic is it to think that a
>percentage could be "won over" by the Great Danes?
>
>LSBAL and I have talked about U of H's demographics
>and how they don't have a large percentage of Greater
>Hartford kids within their student body and a large
>percentage of the alumni go outside Greater Hartford
>for work. This makes the Hawks #3 in town after UConn
>and Central Conn. State (the ultimate "safety school"
>-- almost 10% of my HS class went to Central!!!). It
>is an uphill battle for U of H to fight, especially
>when you add in the immense popularity of the UConn
>Women's Basketball Program. Logically, you'd think
>Siena would have similar struggles in Albany. Your
>thoughts?
>
>To soothe your nerves after I've riled up all you
>Danes' fans by even talking about Siena, let me
>interject a little NAC history as we approach the
>playoffs. I believe it was 1988 and Siena was the #1
>seed for the NAC playoffs with a 24-3 or 23-4 record
>with probably one league loss. UNH was having a
>hideous season -- had won two games (each by one
>point!!), the Coach's job was being threatened, they
>had to beat UVM in Burlington in the season finale to
>get the 8th and final seed for the playoffs. In these
>days, the tournament was held at the Hartford Civic
>Center for all three rounds. Siena is thinking NCAA
>tournament while UNH is thinking about saving the
>coaches job. Despite 25+ and 15+ point losses to
>Siena during the regular season, UNH managed to upset
>Siena and throttle their NCAA hopes. Mike Deane was
>beside himself, to say the least! Because, like you
>guys, I don't give a rat's backside about Siena, I
>can't recall if they got to the NIT. I've got to
>think that it is the all time NAC/AE tournament upset.
> Does that get me forgiveness for bring up Siena?
Yes, siena went to the NIT in '88. They played bc in the the last game at Roberts Center. bc made a big deal about the game and blew siena out. Those schools deserve each other.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- UAalum72, 19:16:07 02/28/03 Fri
>
>I'm not trying to get all you Great Danes fans in a
>lather (I know just mentioning them does that!), but
>I'd like to know more about the Albany region and
>Siena. From a distance, I see Siena as a small,
>private school which probably doesn't have a large
>percentage of students from Greater Albany. Yet, they
>play at Pepsi Arena and have impressive attendance
>figures from what I see posted on the forum. MAAC
>basketball isn't exactly the Big East or the ACC! I
>acknowledge that there are good rivalries with other
>parochial universites in NY and the Northeast, but....
>
>How did they attract such a following? Are the Siena
>fans "died in the wool" or just basketball fans? I
>know they had D-1 hoop before the Danes, but you'd
>think there are more SUNY-Albany alumni in the Capital
>region. How realistic is it to think that a
>percentage could be "won over" by the Great Danes?
>
>LSBAL and I have talked about U of H's demographics
>and how they don't have a large percentage of Greater
>Hartford kids within their student body and a large
>percentage of the alumni go outside Greater Hartford
>for work. This makes the Hawks #3 in town after UConn
>and Central Conn. State (the ultimate "safety school"
>-- almost 10% of my HS class went to Central!!!). It
>is an uphill battle for U of H to fight, especially
>when you add in the immense popularity of the UConn
>Women's Basketball Program. Logically, you'd think
>Siena would have similar struggles in Albany. Your
>thoughts?
>
Siena was founded in the 1930's and into the 1970's was mainly a commuter school. In the early 50s the Indians were nationally ranked; much of their community support and rep dated to then. (the siena board has commented on the greying of their fan base) Altho Siena deemphasized hoops for a while, since they went back to D-I in '77 they've gotten 90% of the media coverage, leaving UA nearly invisible in the winter until lately.The strength of the parochial school system relative to the public also builds loyalty to the Catholic college.
UAlbany was a teacher's college until 1962, didn't really expand until the late 60s. Over half the students are from NYC and Long Island, and they don't hang around the area after graduation. For that matter, they don't stick around on the weekends either, which hurts attendance. We'll get more fans if we get a 15-game winning streak or get to the NCAAs, especially if Siena has a 3-4 year slump like during the Bob Beyer years, but barring that it'll be a long haul to get near parity in this market.
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[> [>
Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- Dane Pound, 10:23:10 03/01/03 Sat
I have to disagre with UAlum72 to some extent. I've heard $iena fans complain that Albany gets too much coverage now and I don't think any fan believes their team is covered by the media as much as they would like. $iena draws unbelievably well for a MAAC team, I think most of those fans however are not alum but basketball fans. For the most part hard-core $iena fans are terrified of the day when Albany starts putting together some winning seasons, witnessed by the fact they we drew almost 4,000 to a game to see a team that had a 5-15 record. Some of their anxiety stems from football, that's 2 months of the year the Danes are covered by local media where $iena football is usually ignored. Should we build a new football stadium they would probably be beside themselves.
I think alot of $iena fans would love to see them upgrade to a stronger conference like the A-10 for basketball. More so now that we have gone D1. There's not that big of a difference between the AE and the MAAC and I think $iena would like to increase the gap between themselves and Albany. I don't know that they could afford the extra costs associated with going A-10 and their basketball record would almost certainly suffer.
I don't know the partucular numbers but I'm sure there are a ton of Albany alum in the Albany area. Over the years alot of them became $iena fans just because they were the only game in town and their was no real rivalry in basketball. I would hope as our program builds this will change and Albany grads will be Albany fans. When I was a student the only sport Albany and $iena played each other in was hockey which believe me is small potatos in a town where RPI hockey is king. Small potatos or not these were some ferocious games. I remember one in partuclar at the Albany County Ice Rink where the some $iena fans and the Albany coach actually had a fight betwen periods. The state troopers were called in and there were cops everywhere for the final period which I was happy about since there were only about 25 Albany fans there at the time. I can only imagine what the Albany-Siena basketball games were like in the 60's and 70's.
For the most part thought we really don't hate $iena fans and except for a few weeks in November (when the two teams play) most of the $iena fans I know at least follow what's going on at Albany and vice-versa although I'm not sure anyone would admit it.
>>
>>I'm not trying to get all you Great Danes fans in a
>>lather (I know just mentioning them does that!), but
>>I'd like to know more about the Albany region and
>>Siena. From a distance, I see Siena as a small,
>>private school which probably doesn't have a large
>>percentage of students from Greater Albany. Yet, they
>>play at Pepsi Arena and have impressive attendance
>>figures from what I see posted on the forum. MAAC
>>basketball isn't exactly the Big East or the ACC! I
>>acknowledge that there are good rivalries with other
>>parochial universites in NY and the Northeast, but....
>>
>>How did they attract such a following? Are the Siena
>>fans "died in the wool" or just basketball fans? I
>>know they had D-1 hoop before the Danes, but you'd
>>think there are more SUNY-Albany alumni in the Capital
>>region. How realistic is it to think that a
>>percentage could be "won over" by the Great Danes?
>>
>>LSBAL and I have talked about U of H's demographics
>>and how they don't have a large percentage of Greater
>>Hartford kids within their student body and a large
>>percentage of the alumni go outside Greater Hartford
>>for work. This makes the Hawks #3 in town after UConn
>>and Central Conn. State (the ultimate "safety school"
>>-- almost 10% of my HS class went to Central!!!). It
>>is an uphill battle for U of H to fight, especially
>>when you add in the immense popularity of the UConn
>>Women's Basketball Program. Logically, you'd think
>>Siena would have similar struggles in Albany. Your
>>thoughts?
>>
>
>Siena was founded in the 1930's and into the 1970's
>was mainly a commuter school. In the early 50s the
>Indians were nationally ranked; much of their
>community support and rep dated to then. (the siena
>board has commented on the greying of their fan base)
>Altho Siena deemphasized hoops for a while, since they
>went back to D-I in '77 they've gotten 90% of the
>media coverage, leaving UA nearly invisible in the
>winter until lately.The strength of the parochial
>school system relative to the public also builds
>loyalty to the Catholic college.
>
>UAlbany was a teacher's college until 1962, didn't
>really expand until the late 60s. Over half the
>students are from NYC and Long Island, and they don't
>hang around the area after graduation. For that
>matter, they don't stick around on the weekends
>either, which hurts attendance. We'll get more fans if
>we get a 15-game winning streak or get to the NCAAs,
>especially if Siena has a 3-4 year slump like during
>the Bob Beyer years, but barring that it'll be a long
>haul to get near parity in this market.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- UAalum72, 18:38:25 03/01/03 Sat
Of course $iena fans are complaining about the coverage NOW, this is the first time in 25 years they've had to share the basketball news. Especially with the top-rated TV sports anchor hosting and plugging the coaches' show and doing our radio.
As for hating (or at least being annoyed by) $iena fans only in November, speak for yourself.
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[>
Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- mildcat, 22:56:28 02/28/03 Fri
1988 was my sophomore year at UNH and I remember coming home to Congreve Hall that night and hearing about the win. Despite having a God-awful basketball team that season, UNH had probably one of the best guards in the history of the program at the time...do you remember his name? It is driving me crazy. Years later, a co-worker of mine who was going to Siena at the time, and was at the game, recalled that the green and yellow clad Siena faithful where chanting "midget, midget" (he was undersized) when he got the ball...my friend said that not only did he light them up from the outside, but he dunked three times as well.
>To soothe your nerves after I've riled up all you
>Danes' fans by even talking about Siena, let me
>interject a little NAC history as we approach the
>playoffs. I believe it was 1988 and Siena was the #1
>seed for the NAC playoffs with a 24-3 or 23-4 record
>with probably one league loss. UNH was having a
>hideous season -- had won two games (each by one
>point!!), the Coach's job was being threatened, they
>had to beat UVM in Burlington in the season finale to
>get the 8th and final seed for the playoffs. In these
>days, the tournament was held at the Hartford Civic
>Center for all three rounds. Siena is thinking NCAA
>tournament while UNH is thinking about saving the
>coaches job. Despite 25+ and 15+ point losses to
>Siena during the regular season, UNH managed to upset
>Siena and throttle their NCAA hopes. Mike Deane was
>beside himself, to say the least! Because, like you
>guys, I don't give a rat's backside about Siena, I
>can't recall if they got to the NIT. I've got to
>think that it is the all time NAC/AE tournament upset.
> Does that get me forgiveness for bring up Siena?
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[> [>
Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- lsbal, 23:04:38 02/28/03 Fri
>1988 was my sophomore year at UNH and I remember
>coming home to Congreve Hall that night and hearing
>about the win. Despite having a God-awful basketball
>team that season, UNH had probably one of the best
>guards in the history of the program at the time...do
>you remember his name? It is driving me crazy. Years
>later, a co-worker of mine who was going to Siena at
>the time, and was at the game, recalled that the green
>and yellow clad Siena faithful where chanting "midget,
>midget" (he was undersized) when he got the ball...my
>friend said that not only did he light them up from
>the outside, but he dunked three times as well.
>
>>To soothe your nerves after I've riled up all you
>>Danes' fans by even talking about Siena, let me
>>interject a little NAC history as we approach the
>>playoffs. I believe it was 1988 and Siena was the #1
>>seed for the NAC playoffs with a 24-3 or 23-4 record
>>with probably one league loss. UNH was having a
>>hideous season -- had won two games (each by one
>>point!!), the Coach's job was being threatened, they
>>had to beat UVM in Burlington in the season finale to
>>get the 8th and final seed for the playoffs. In these
>>days, the tournament was held at the Hartford Civic
>>Center for all three rounds. Siena is thinking NCAA
>>tournament while UNH is thinking about saving the
>>coaches job. Despite 25+ and 15+ point losses to
>>Siena during the regular season, UNH managed to upset
>>Siena and throttle their NCAA hopes. Mike Deane was
>>beside himself, to say the least! Because, like you
>>guys, I don't give a rat's backside about Siena, I
>>can't recall if they got to the NIT. I've got to
>>think that it is the all time NAC/AE tournament upset.
>> Does that get me forgiveness for bring up Siena?
I think that was during the Matt Alosa time? He was my all-time favorite UNH player.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- mildcat, 23:15:56 02/28/03 Fri
You are right that Alosa was one of UNH's best, but this was about 10 years before his time. I actually just looked it up on UNH's web site...the guy's name was Derek Counts (not a bad basketball name). The thing about Counts was that he had no supporting cast (Alosa had Drapeau), and I think they won about 15 games in the 4 years he was there.
>>1988 was my sophomore year at UNH and I remember
>>coming home to Congreve Hall that night and hearing
>>about the win. Despite having a God-awful basketball
>>team that season, UNH had probably one of the best
>>guards in the history of the program at the time...do
>>you remember his name? It is driving me crazy. Years
>>later, a co-worker of mine who was going to Siena at
>>the time, and was at the game, recalled that the green
>>and yellow clad Siena faithful where chanting "midget,
>>midget" (he was undersized) when he got the ball...my
>>friend said that not only did he light them up from
>>the outside, but he dunked three times as well.
>>
>>>To soothe your nerves after I've riled up all you
>>>Danes' fans by even talking about Siena, let me
>>>interject a little NAC history as we approach the
>>>playoffs. I believe it was 1988 and Siena was the #1
>>>seed for the NAC playoffs with a 24-3 or 23-4 record
>>>with probably one league loss. UNH was having a
>>>hideous season -- had won two games (each by one
>>>point!!), the Coach's job was being threatened, they
>>>had to beat UVM in Burlington in the season finale to
>>>get the 8th and final seed for the playoffs. In
>these
>>>days, the tournament was held at the Hartford Civic
>>>Center for all three rounds. Siena is thinking NCAA
>>>tournament while UNH is thinking about saving the
>>>coaches job. Despite 25+ and 15+ point losses to
>>>Siena during the regular season, UNH managed to upset
>>>Siena and throttle their NCAA hopes. Mike Deane was
>>>beside himself, to say the least! Because, like you
>>>guys, I don't give a rat's backside about Siena, I
>>>can't recall if they got to the NIT. I've got to
>>>think that it is the all time NAC/AE tournament
>upset.
>>> Does that get me forgiveness for bring up Siena?
>
>I think that was during the Matt Alosa time? He was my
>all-time favorite UNH player.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- NU Hoop Fan, 12:16:43 03/01/03 Sat
Derek Counts was a VERY good point guard. I think he was at UNH my freshman and sophomore year at NU.
I have the opportunity to work with both Siena and Albany alum at my Firm, and suffice to say, the hostilities between them when it comes to sports is more personal than anything I've seen in Boston between NU, BU, and BC alum.
I also have clients in Albany, and when I ask them about Albany sports it's like "why would you even care, Siena almost won the NIT in 1994 [I think that was the year they had Doremus Bennerman]." and these folks didn't go to Siena..
I'm thinking that Siena doesn't really have pro sports to think of (I know you have the AHL and a great CBA team), that the locals need something to align themselves with, so they align themselves with the one local school that does well... Siena.
This is my take on it..The Siena folk think that their stuff doesn't stink and that Albany is nothing more than a glamorized state school who is currently D-1. (For those who live in CT think about how a Yale Alum treats someone from Hartford, Quinnipiac, or CCSU).
When Siena was in the NAC their arrogance was legendary. In 88 and 89 they were GOOD, no doubt about it...and they let everyone know it. They also traveled very well (at least to Boston).
I'd argue the team they had in 88 that lost to UNH was a better team than the one in 89 that beat Stanford in the NCAA's in Greensboro.
Beating Siena and Mike Deane was a big deal when I was in school. I know Deane and Foges didn't get along, and I think that he and Jarvis couldn't stand each other, so that added something to it.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 21:55:03 03/01/03 Sat
>You are right that Alosa was one of UNH's best, but
>this was about 10 years before his time. I actually
>just looked it up on UNH's web site...the guy's name
>was Derek Counts (not a bad basketball name). The
>thing about Counts was that he had no supporting cast
>(Alosa had Drapeau), and I think they won about 15
>games in the 4 years he was there.
Just wanted to confirm that yes it was Derek Counts. But I don't recall three dunks.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- mildcat, 00:05:37 03/02/03 Sun
>>You are right that Alosa was one of UNH's best, but
>>this was about 10 years before his time. I actually
>>just looked it up on UNH's web site...the guy's name
>>was Derek Counts (not a bad basketball name). The
>>thing about Counts was that he had no supporting cast
>>(Alosa had Drapeau), and I think they won about 15
>>games in the 4 years he was there.
>
>
>Just wanted to confirm that yes it was Derek Counts.
>But I don't recall three dunks.
Probably some artistic license on my Siena friend's part...his vison may have been blurred by the tears...but he did mention dunks.
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Re: Serious Question about Siena & the Capital Region -- Don, 22:05:21 03/31/07 Sat
I was the manager of the UNH team that beat Siena that year...and we almost beat Niagara but lost 62-59, yes I still remember the score. Derek Counts was a good friend of mine who I have not spoken with in probably 15 years. Derek was 5'10 "maybe" quick, quick, quick, problem was no one could run with him, he was a high school phenom in Maine and he had no supporting cast, our center was Patrick Ewing's high school back up, so he didn't see a lot of time. I will never forget beating Siena, we were 4-24 and they were 24-3 I believe...anyway, good nostalgia...
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