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Subject: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 18:07:50 07/26/21 Mon

Hello, Odd Job!
And hello, colleague forum members!

I'm glad Odd Job is starting this forum.
I hope it proves to be a good one.

I am a compulsive researcher on matters gymnosophic,
so I can supply gobs of information on any of the following questions:

What is or is not decent behavior of an adult in relations to a child?
How does a psychologically normal adult see a child?
How does a psychologically normal adult see a naked child?
Does a naked child symbolize anything? If so, what?
How does a psychologically normal adult see a naked boy as opposed to a naked girl?
How does a naked child feel?
If you were an adult living at the time that boys swam naked, what would you do?
Why can't boys wear short shorts without being ridiculed?
Why can't physically immature girls go topless without alarming people?

If any of these questions interest you,
say the word.

By the way, Odd Job, are you sure you're not being unfair in your grievance against the moderator of 223876?
We haven't seen him do anything,
so he or she probably doesn't exist.
Could it be that he or she has abandoned the forum?
Or gone to prison and not allowed to log into the forum?
Or died?
I know we get a lot of messages purporting to be from the moderator,
but so what?
You or I or anyone else could write a message on 223876 and sign it "Moderator."

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:15:11 07/26/21 Mon

I thought of one more discussion topic to suggest:

On the 223876 forum, Odd Job suggested that nude swim meets were instituted, consciously or unconsciously, as a mating ritual.
I have been so impressed with this suggestion that I have been calling it the "Odd Job theory."
I read a little bit about mating rituals among animals of other species and decided that there really is something to Odd Job's suggestion.
I could stand to do a little more reading on the subject, however.

Since Odd Job is the founder of this forum,
perhaps we should stage a grand entrance with a discussion on this topic.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
Joe B
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Date Posted: 23:55:59 07/26/21 Mon

Glad to see that this forum exists! I guess I was born too late, as the concept of a nude swim meet is unknown to me. I'd like to know when these swim meets occurred, and where. With the Olympics currently being televised, I can say that I would very much prefer to see the athletes (men) swimming bareassed, and I would include the gymnasts and divers and wrestlers as well. But back to the swim meets. Someone fill me in on those. I would have loved to have participated in a nude swim meet myself!

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 05:01:05 07/27/21 Tue

Hello, JoeB!

I'm old enough to remember all this,
but I don't because it happened only in some parts of the United States and wasn't even mentioned anywhere else.
So I had no idea that it was going on.

Regarding the questions which you are asking, the best researcher seems to be Paul LeValley.
He keeps tabs on when it started, where it started, where it didn't, and when it stopped:
http://www.tnsprofessorsig.org/nude%20swimming%20in%20school.html

If you're interested in nude sports,
be sure to check out a men's rugby team in New Zealand:
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/new-zealand-nude-blacks

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 18:39:29 07/27/21 Tue

My high school had an outdoor pool so I will assume that is the reason the boys had to wear suits, either for swim team or regular P.E. But I would have loved to have been able to walk out onto the deck completely bareassed along with my teammates to compete at a meet with other bareassed teams. I was lucky enough to be a member of a YMCA with a large basement pool and plenty of nude boys, myself included, and nude adults enjoying the comfort and atmosphere. I didn't know it was Title IX that put an end to an era, although the nude swimming at the Y continued up to around 1977, I think. Today's boys have no idea what they're missing out on.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 03:53:52 07/28/21 Wed

Hello, JoeB!

I keep a collection of suggestions regarding what killed the Gymnopedokolympic Era:

--the Education Amendments Act of 1972--

You mentioned Title IX.
Here's a Website which also mentions Title IX:

http://www.frank-answers.com/frank-answers-about-swimming-naked-commentary-part-ii/

Title IX of the Education Amendments Act reads, “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”

Either require all the students to go nude, allow all of the students to wear swim suits, or lose funding.
The easiest choice was the most popular.
“Swimsuits rather than lawsuits” became a popular slogan.

http://www.tnsprofessorsig.org/nude%20swimming%20in%20school.html

--fear of sexual abusers--

This was another coffin nail.

--fear of homosexuality--

Just as a nude juvenile male could attract a sexual abuser by virtue of being a juvenile, he could attract a male homosexual by virtue of being a male.
This was still another coffin nail.

--upgrading of water filters--

In 1916, the American Public Health Association had recommended that boys swim nude because fibers from the swim suits would clog the water filters.

Apparently, the girls’ modesty was more important than the water filters, which in turn was more important than the boys’ modesty.

By 1962, water chlorination and filter technology had improved to the point that the APHA allowed swim suits in their guidelines.

--unrealistic self-expectations created by the media--

Thomas Mendip refers to “ridiculous body norms propagated by cultural icons like Schwarzenegger.”

--women’s lib--

According to Bobby, boys were expected to be “tough and uncaring” while girls were expected to be “modest and emotional.”

As the population of women doctors, women lawyers, and women engineers increased, the population of gymnopedokolympists decreased.

Here is how Bobby supports his view:

“If you look at the places in the world where boys are still forced to swim nude, females are often treated in the same way they were in the west during the 1950's and are generally seen as second-class citizens without many roles outside the home.”

https://www.voy.com/223876/11172.html
https://www.voy.com/206801/5952.html

Finally, it is questionable that the double standard is altogether dead.
A mother of two boys and one girl expressed the opinion that coed swimming class, phys ed class, and track events should be held with the boys attending nude and the girls wearing one-piece suits.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-boys-had-to-swim-naked-in-swim-class-or-the-YMCA-in-1960s-or-1970s

Mike (2018) wrote that he would approve of his sons swimming naked with girls, but only provided that the girls wore suits.
Conversely, he would approve of his daughters swimming with naked boys, but only provided that his daughters wore suits.
He explains, “Girls do need more modesty.”

Mike puts his principles into practice.
He allows himself and his sons to be naked at home, and to remain naked when his daughters have visitors.
For reasons which might be obvious, his daughters’ friends “come over often.”

I don’t mean to make an ad hominem argument, but I think that Mike has reason to be biased.
It happens to be the boys-naked-girls-in-swimsuits notion which brought him into the world.
His father, in his younger years, was a gymnokolympist.
When Mike’s father was not busy at a swim meet, he stood in front of the bleachers, conversing with the audience.
There he was, in all his glory, in the admiring gaze of Mike’s mother—who was not his mother at the time, Mike’s mother’s mother, and Mike’s mother’s two sisters.
For four years, Mike’s mother remained a fan of the swimming team and repeatedly saw Mike’s father from head to foot.
Yet he never saw her until their wedding night.

http://www.voy.com/223876/3/1297.html

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
John to Spelvin (Mad)
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Date Posted: 21:01:05 08/03/21 Tue

George - nice to communicate with you on Odd Job’s new forum! You have always been a serious researcher and that continues here. Thank you for all the links.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 07:24:23 07/28/21 Wed

"Joe B"
I agree with you
it would be better if at olympic games at least the swimmers would be naked or at least in short and tight speedos instead of their too long boxers !

As regards your high school which had an outdoor pool which could be the reason why the boys had to wear suits, either for swim team or regular P.E, It can be right but it is not sure.
I presume that some years ago, it would not have prevented you from the apply of the rule of boys swiming in the nude.
If mothers, sisters, siblings and all women or girls interested could come at a meet to see the boys of a swimming team swim in the nude, why hide their nudity to spectators of both genders and ages passing by the outside swimming pool ?
Since nudity of boys was so widely admitted, it would not have been an issue !

And I have read on the reverse on one link that there was an outside swimming pool at a boy's only school boys and its diving spots were visible from a wall outside and the boys stark naked had noticed that some girls were always passing by that wall during their swimming lessons in purpose to watch at their naked bodies when they were standing in position ready to dive on the diving spots of the swimming pool ; it is funny but really possible.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 18:54:48 07/28/21 Wed

When I attended high school, the powers that be at that time mandated that boys wear suits. So, boys wore suits. But I do recall that several years earlier, long before I showed up, much of the high school underwent transformation. About 75% of the school buildings were demolished and replaced with more modern, up to date structures; the remaining 25% or so just underwent updating or refurbishment. I seem to recall that the swimming pool had been enclosed. The remodel removed the enclosure but kept the pool, deck and bleachers. The locker rooms were also remodeled and given new lockers and showers. It would have been fairly easy to walk naked out of the locker room and onto the pool deck, or from the pool deck into the showers, because a new door or portal was placed for easy access. But I never thought to enquire if the boys swam bareassed back then when the pool was enclosed. I can't see why they wouldn't have.

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[> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
Odd Job
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Date Posted: 19:43:18 07/26/21 Mon

On the contrary, it's he/she who has been unfair to us.
Look at that forum, Spelvin. One half of it is spam. Online pharmacies, video collections, guns (???!!!).
It took him three months just to bump Factchecker out of there.
I had no particular desire to do this, but I finally decided (aint that always the way) that if you want something done properly, you must do it yourself!

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[> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
jean the frenchie
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Date Posted: 07:36:11 07/28/21 Wed

I agree with you JOeB : when I was at school in France in the first 60's for the equivalent of high school or even at middle school, never a PE teacher would have left his boys students go out after a Pe lesson or sport without a shower under his supervision.

The showers were taken in a shower area at the back of the locker room in group of about ten or more, he stood at the entrance ( no door, just a wall )and after at the exit so that he could see all of us and be sure that we soaped perfectly all parts of our dirty bodies.

It was inspired by military methods for group showers.
During military service and even at my first pre-induction military physical examination after reaching 18 age where we had first before the beginning of the physicals a compulsory group shower, all parts of the bodies might be soaped in an order decided by a non commissioner officer who shouted to us his instructions and we might follow them strictly, so every draftee was instructed to bend over at the same time as the others to wash his crack ass or his feet, it was humiliating but efficient....

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[> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
John to Odd Job (Mad)
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Date Posted: 20:43:50 08/03/21 Tue

Odd Job - Thank you for starting this forum. For some reason, maybe mainly due to the spam, the other forum became less enjoyable. Appreciate you giving us all an alternative.

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[> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 19:48:18 07/27/21 Tue

Interesting topics. I would be willing to discuss a few of them or learn your opinions. One of the regrettable attitudes in recent culture is the reluctance among boys to display their nude bodies with one another, even to the point that many high school and middle school locker rooms no longer utilize showers after sports or workouts. In my day a coach or instructor would get on you if you avoided a shower. I blame this trend on the influence of inner city street culture in fashion, the arts, and even language. How do you feel about this issue?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
jean the frenchie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:37:24 07/28/21 Wed

I agree with you JOeB : when I was at school in France in the first 60's for the equivalent of high school or even at middle school, never a PE teacher would have left his boys students go out after a Pe lesson or sport without a shower under his supervision.

The showers were taken in a shower area at the back of the locker room in group of about ten or more, he stood at the entrance ( no door, just a wall )and after at the exit so that he could see all of us and be sure that we soaped perfectly all parts of our dirty bodies.

It was inspired by military methods for group showers.
During military service and even at my first pre-induction military physical examination after reaching 18 age where we had first before the beginning of the physicals a compulsory group shower, all parts of the bodies might be soaped in an order decided by a non commissioner officer who shouted to us his instructions and we might follow them strictly, so every draftee was instructed to bend over at the same time as the others to wash his crack ass or his feet, it was humiliating but efficient....

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[> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 11:42:10 07/29/21 Thu

Hello Spelvin, just curious, how do you define a psychologically normal adult?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 16:02:28 07/29/21 Thu

By "psychologically normal adult,"
I mean one who is primarily attracted to adults of the opposite sex.
Although I realize that many such adults are abnormal in other ways.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Glad to be here!


Author:
JoeB
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Date Posted: 22:51:53 07/29/21 Thu

So an attraction to adults of the same sex is not psychologically normal?

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