Create a New Forum Admin Login Member Login Contribute to Voyager Search VoyForums Help Desk VoyForums Exchange VoyForums Directory/Categories VoyForums Homepage VoyForums News FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, [9], 10 ]

Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: bodack [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 04:19:05 11/01/25 Sat In reply to: Caitlyn 's message, "Appendix, etc" on 10:32:32 10/31/25 Fri Caitlyn, Do you still get trick or treaters at the door? I have only had one group of six in twenty years since I lived here. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:32:46 11/01/25 Sat We had some friends bring their kids, which was fun, but didn't have anyone we didn't know.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:51:22 11/02/25 Sun And I thought that was going on in full force in every Am neighborhood! Glad to hear that it doesn’t seem like any big deal, Caity! (Just a scar, making you look like the tough girl you are?) What puzzled me was that it seemed so arbitrary. The same demenour on my part that could have just been laughed off, under other circumstances, could result in a spanking. Probably I didn’t think enough about mom being on her toes because dad wasn’t around. It could well have resulted in a trench war. What saved us from that was probably that my mom saw that, and eased up a bit. You had no such luck, as I understand it? But how arbitrary was it to you? If you by ”last spanking” think of the occasion when you and your stepdad was in an argument about the labor conflict in Hollywood, it seemed very arbitrary to me, at the time. Have you somewhat modified your perspective on that event, since? (No criticism, we should all be ready to re-examine our thoughts) All my best! Leona

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: bodack [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:15:22 11/03/25 Mon My sister had over a hundred kids drop by. Eleanore, I wonder at the beginning your mom was still trying to decide when a spanking was appropriate or she should just let it slide. I am sure she discussed the spankings with your father and that is why she toned it down.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:09:15 11/04/25 Tue That might have happened, Bodack! I doubt that was the deciding factor, though. Dad can sometimes think that if you don’t talk about something, it goes away by itself. (Not an unknown make feature?) So, I think it was of more importance that mom (and I) gradually found out that things went better with the two of us, than our projected fears led us to think in the beginning. Leona

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:32:30 11/05/25 Wed Hi! It was laparoscopic, so there are just some small scars. They don’t really make me look tough! My mom was probably more alert overall to any potential issues when my stepdad was traveling, just because there wasn’t that second set of eyes. But when he was home she was always watching out for any problems between me and him, and trying to head them off one way or another. She never really eased up though, at least not in spanking me when she thought it was warranted, except maybe that last few months or so that I was at home. There were a few spankings that I’d consider arbitrary, meaning that they were for something that didn’t necessarily require a spanking even by the rules and expectations that were in place. My stepdad spanking me for my final statistics grade when my mom had already spanked me for the problem that led to that grade is an example. But I don’t think that last spanking falls into the same category. With how that discussion turned into an argument and things that were said, a spanking was predictable. I haven’t really modified my thinking about that one, except that I’m more sure now than I was then that he was deliberately provoking me. Some of what you describe as arbitrary on your mom’s part could have been something else, don’t you think? I know my parents reacted differently to things when they were having a bad day, and I definitely think there were times when a spanking occurred because little things I’d said or done had built up to the point where they thought I needed a spanking or they needed to get rid of their frustration. Maybe the same things happened with your mom? Take care! Caity

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: bodack [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:37:24 11/06/25 Thu "they needed to get rid of their frustration" Let me add a slightly different view point. I have been in such stressful situations were I needed every ounce of energy to take care of me. Any thing that takes away thay energy has to be dealt with immediately, even if it was something that if your weren't overloaded you would enjoy. I think that was responsible for a large amount of my mothers actions.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:09:30 11/07/25 Fri Hi! Maybe this is semantics? The arbtritrariness part? If you do something as drastic as giving an older teen/young adult a spanking, you should have established principles for yourself, I think, even if mood swings and bad days is part of everyone’s life. It’s hard to deal with provocation! But there is a grey zone, isn’t there? If often feel that mom riled me up, but I suppose I was easily riled up, and I don’t think she deliberately set up traps for me, as your stepdad did to you. I’m sure that if something similar happened to you now, you could find yourself a way out. But could you have done that back then? (I often think abt if I could have said and done things to lower tension, but while I see now that it could have been done, I can’t see myself doing that at the time. Maybe some things ”just happened” and have to be left at that? Have a good weekend! Leona

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:34:36 11/12/25 Wed Hi! There definitely should be principles, as you call them, so the spankings aren’t arbitrary, occurring just because of a bad mood or a bad day. It seems like there are three categories of actions or behaviors: Things you know, or at least should reasonably anticipate, will result in a spanking; things that you don’t get spanked for; and things that live in that grey area you mention. It seems to me that second category is where the biggest problem can occur. I didn’t have a curfew, but there was a night when my stepdad spanked me for not being home at the time I’d said I’d be home, treating that time as a curfew even though I’d called and had my stepsister tell him I’d be home later. I think it’s those sort of things that really create the problems. Your spanking for smoking marijuana probably falls into the gray area category, doesn’t it, rather than being in that category of something you didn’t think would be a spanking offense? I know there were times I could have lowered the tension, whether that was in several instances with my stepdad or early on when things first went downhill with my mom. I’d probably handle some of those situations differently if I had it to do over, but honestly there are some I wouldn’t. Take care! Caity

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:07:31 11/17/25 Mon Hi! Yes, I’d place the pot smoking in the grey area. Mom does have a rather outdated outlook on those things, but what decided the case was that I had put her look bad in front of neighbour she dislikes (and with good reason, I might add). I still think I should have been found ”not guilty” on that one. Probably because I think it matters a lot how cause and effect are related? I know I had no intention whatsover to put mom in an awkward situation with that neighbour, so in that light it was a pure accident. But I know that I probably put more weight to intention than most people, and therefore would be a hopeless judge. I know (I think) that criminal law isn’t the field of your interest, but these grey zone phenomena must be interesting to any student of law, don’t they? Are you seeing your folks for Thanksgiving this year? All the best! Leona

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:03:29 11/19/25 Wed Hi! The gray areas of the law are definitely interesting. The law does sometimes take intent into account, like with the different level of charges that can be levied for killing someone. First-degree murder, second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, etc. Intent can even mean no charges at all, such as justifiable homicide. In your case, I suppose if your friends had held you down and forced you to smoke pot, lol, then a spanking wouldn’t have been warranted. But I think of the time I didn’t lock the stall correctly at my aunt’s farm and a horse escaped. I didn’t intend for that to happen, but ultimately it was my carelessness that allowed it to happen, as my aunt forcefully reminded me. No, I won’t see them at Thanksgiving. They’re going to be in Japan, so I’m going to visit my stepbrother and his family. My stepsister will be there too. There's a German holiday similar to Thanksgiving, or at least close to it, in October, isn't there? Take care! Caity

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 03:26:36 11/21/25 Fri Hello! The fun thing is that I recently heard a Professor giving a lecture about Roman Law, and it’s influence upon Western society up to today. She in passing gave the Latin phrase for (some of) the grey zone: ”Casus cum culpa”. Those things lodge in my memory - I’ll have to learn Latin some day! Obviously, carelessness can’t always be set aside. My carelessness in the pot incident consisted of me not taking into account that a nosey neighbour would pick up some butt ends and give them a sniff. I still think that is far-fetched to say that is more of culpa, than casus? If mom had given me a stern lecture (she knows how to do it), I would have agreed with her that I should have taken care to not compromise her, and we could have just moved on. Abt you leaving the stable door open, I guess I would say that it depends on how real the risk was for the colt? (See why I would be a hopeless judge?) We do have something that is similar to Thanksgiving, in some ways, but it’s more of a harvest festival, celebrated earlier in the year, and not as big a thing (though it can be pretty big in some rural areas). Happy Thanksgiving to you, and all Americans here! Leona

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:37:24 11/25/25 Tue Hi! “Accident with fault” is a perfect description, isn’t it. In that instance the risk was small, but real. But it occurred to me after I’d posted that what happened at my stepdad’s niece’s wedding might be more like your pot smoking incident. I got one of my hardest spankings from my stepdad for that, but that was certainly due in large part to the circumstance. If the same thing had happened somewhere else, like at a concert or a club or at a friend’s wedding, I don’t think I would have been punished for it at all. At least it wouldn’t have been treated like such a major incident. Do you think that might be “now you” talking? Would you have really agreed with her, or might “then you” have just rolled her eyes at your mom being over-sensitive to what her neighbors think? It goes back to the question of whether spankings are “necessary”, doesn’t it? There are times I look back and think that the spankings weren’t necessary, especially the later ones. But I also know that my attitudes and thought processes were different then than they are now, and I might easily have gone in a different direction. Take care! Caity

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:42:55 11/25/25 Tue Hi! That’s a very good question - and hard to answer! If I try, I think that my ”then” me would have been less sensitive to the feelings of neighbours, but not so unsensitive to my moms feelings of embarrassment. So that’s kind of a grey zone, too, isn’t it? What I feel certain of, is that my ”then” self wouldn’t have gone off in any radically different direction, spankings or not. But there’s room for self-deception, there, no doubt? What do you think? Another question: i can think your parents in Japan might think it’s nice that you and your stepsiblings spend the Holiday together. Do you think they ever examine their ”then”-selves? Like thinking ”Did we go to far? Was it wrong of us to allow her stepsister to get involved in spanking her”? All my best! Leona

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:21:57 12/03/25 Wed Hi! Yes, it’s kind of a gray zone. When I think of myself then, and try to be as honest as possible, I know that I was very self-centered. My thoughts after that first year of college weren’t about the impact it had on my parents, emotionally, financially, or otherwise. The were on how the situation affected me, and how I could try to salvage it with as much dignity, self-respect, and independence as possible. It was a poor approach. But at the same time I do try to be kind to her, the then me, and recognize what I was dealing with and what I now know were some of the reasons I acted as I did. There’s definitely room for self-deception. It can be easy to assume the best about ourselves, and blame others for how the situation unfolded. I’m sure my mom thinks both of those things. She’s happy with where I am now, but like me I think she wonders whether a different approach might have ended with the same result. She’s talked about not realizing just how involved my stepsister would become, but I think any regrets she might have about that have been eased by my stepsister and I still having a good relationship. Interestingly, I don’t think she feels badly about my aunt’s involvement. She seems to think that was a positive in helping me learn responsibility. My stepsister wasn’t able to be with us over Thanksgiving after all, but it was still a really nice holiday. I got to spend a lot of time with my stepbrother’s wife, and of course playing with the kids. How are things with you? Getting ready for Christmas? Take care. Caity

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: bodack [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 05:25:26 12/06/25 Sat Caitlyn,we don't grow up worrying about our parents and what sacrifices they had to make for us. We start to realize this only as we get older.Not everybody realizes this which is why so many people abandon their parents in their old age. It seems to be very common nowadays.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:26:14 12/10/25 Wed I think that's true. I have friends who've never developed the ability to look at things that happened in their childhood from their parents' point of view, or even to look at things in their lives today from other people's points of view.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: bodack [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:43:04 12/12/25 Fri I follow a youtube channel called "the Radical center" which is panel of mental health professionals. In one of the discussions they talked about children who no longer talk to their parents.One panelist mention it was mostly people who were given everything they wanted by their parents.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:20:26 12/05/25 Fri Hello! But aren’t those feelings, in themselves, pretty normal in most persons approaching adulthood? (Why do I feel like the devil’s advocate, when I only try to do good, I wonder?) Are we self-deceptive in different directions, and if so who is doing it more? Isn’t interesting that your mom thinks that about your aunt? It agrees with my thought (and yours?) that your aunt ended up as a positive force, doesn’t it? Would you say that she had a clearer idea of your potential than your stepsister? Or even of what your mom had, at that time? I’m fine, Thanks! Looks like we can go to Austria for some skiing around New Year (my bf and I). I hope it will happen! Some sun over snow would be most welcome! What are your plans? Leona

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Caitlyn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:33:46 12/09/25 Tue Hi! Those feelings are definitely normal, and maybe they’re an important part of becoming who we become. But it’s still good to recognize the problems they cause, or caused. I’m not sure if “we” is me and you or us and our parents. If it’s me and you, I’m sure I was more self-deceptive for a time. If it’s us and our parents, I think they might be at least as self-deceptive. As the ones taking action, they’re very likely to see, or think they see, the results they’re looking for to feel good about those actions. We’re going to spend time with both of our parents, and make the visits long enough that we’ll have time to meet up with old friends. It should be fun! That sounds like a great trip! You’re both skiers, then? And things must be going well with your bf? Take care! Caity

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Appendix, etc Author: Eleonora [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:45:26 12/11/25 Thu Hello! I was thinking about you and me, when I said that thing about self-deception. I’m not at all sure you were more self-deceptive? I often think that what stopped me from digging a too big hole for myself was mainly my practical side. But the way you answered opens up some new perspectives! Obviously, when you’re ”in power”, self-deception often takes other forms. You have to take action of some kind, and then you can’t so easily back down. Espescially if the action was drastic, you’ll have to stick to your guns, no? Political solutions for wars are only sought for when the generals say that there’s no military solution. We are in a good spot! None of us are much experienced in skiing, and neither are the friends we’re going with, but IMO it makes it all the more fun! All the best! Leona